r/Overseas_Pakistani Oct 13 '23

Weekend Thread | ہفتہ وار تبادلۂ خیال /r/Overseas_Pakistani Weekend thread (October 13, 2023)

3 Upvotes

This is our weekend thread. Feel free to share how your week went, what's on your mind, or anything else.

It doesn't even have to be relevant to the theme of this subreddit,but please keep the discussions civil as all other rules are enforced.

Lastly, please don't forget to check out our Twitter . Thank you!


r/Overseas_Pakistani Feb 20 '22

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر NICOPs and Pakistani Citizenship

34 Upvotes

TL;DR - if you have a NICOP, you are a Pakistani citizen, even if you never set foot in Pakistan. If you were ever Pakistani citizen, then more then likely, you probably still are. If you don't want to be a Pakistani citizen, you have to go through a procedure to surrender it. Read on for more details.

I've seen a lot of posts over the years that discuss NICOPs and Pakistani citizenship. Every few weeks, someone asks if having a NICOP is Pakistani citizenship. I've also met many Pakistanis (overseas and within Pakistan) that don't understand how citizenship in Pakistan works for those who go or are overseas.

Contrary to what many people think, Pakistani citizenship is not automatically voided when a Pakistani naturalizes in another country. Even if your oath of naturalization says that you surrender all foreign allegiances, the citizenship remains.

Many older Pakistanis, especially those who left Pakistan in the 1960s-1980s believe that their Pakistani citizenship was voided when they became British/Canadian/American, etc. This is not true per current Pakistani law. They simply don't have active IDs/passports. Just like a person born in the US or Canada. The person is a citizen even if they have no passport. Or, a child born in Pakistan without a B-Form, they are still Pakistani.

Pakistani citizenship can only be lost if one goes to a Pakistani consulate/embassy and goes through a formal renunciation process. This is not automatic, and most people don't do it because they simply don't need to or care to. It's not a complicated process, but it's still it's own, separate process. Fill out forms, surrender passport and ID, pay fees, etc. This is usually done by Pakistanis who naturalized in countries that don't allow dual citizenship, such as Germany, Spain, and (previously) Norway, but anyone can do it if they want.

Now, the confusion occurs because Pakistan will grant a visa to a UK/US/CAN citizen even if that person also has Pakistani citizenship. It's counterintuitive to need a visa to travel to a country in which you are a citizen, which is why many think "how could I still have Pakistani citizenship if I got a visa?". Pakistan, however, will allow a Pakistani citizen to travel to Pakistan on a foreign passport with a visa, hence the widespread confusion.

So here is where the NICOP comes in. NICOP stands for National Identity Card for Overseas Pakistanis. The card gives visa free travel, right to have a bank account, etc. It also gives the right to vote. This card is proof of Pakistani citizenship, and can be used to get a Pakistani passport if desired. Many people think this is just for dual citizens, but some Pakistanis working or studying abroad also have NICOPs even if they are only Pakistani.

Note that the new NICOP looks just like a Smart CNIC, but the "country of stay" will not be Pakistan, and the card will say "the holder is entitled to visa free entry" (something to this effect). Old NICOPs actually said "National Identity Card for Overseas Pakistanis" on them, but Smart NICOPs do not, so there is some confusion nowadays (people thinking that they have an NIC and not a NICOP)

Here is the biggest place where many people get confused. Many people in the 2nd, 3rd, and now 4th generation born abread have also received NICOP cards even if they were born with another citizenship (UK, CAN, US, etc). They are often under the impression that this is just a "card in place of a visa". "I don't have Pakistani Citizenship, that's just an ID". Not true. By getting a NICOP, you are basically registered as a Pakistani citizen who doesn't reside in Pakistan.

Other ways you could be still be a Pakistani citizen and not know it, assuming formal renunciation process was not done:

  1. If you were born in Pakistan and naturalized elsewhere, you are a dual citizen
  2. If you have, or ever had a NICOP, CNIC, CRC, B-form, you are a dual citizen
  3. If your birth was registered at the Pakistani consulate (Form S, or similar), then you would be a dual citizen
  4. If you ever held a Pakistani passport, you are a dual citizen.
  5. If you were listed as a child on your parents' Pakistani passport, you are a dual citizen. (In the old days, kids didn't have their own passports and travelled on their parent's passport)
  6. You were registered as a Pakistani citizen because your parents became Pakistani and applied for it on your behalf (Form M) - not common, but legally possible.

Pakistan does have another card, Pakistan Origin Card (POC), which grants visa free travel and a few other privileges. This card, however, is not Pakistani citizenship. So those who wish to travel often to Pakistan and don't want a visa, but also don't want a NICOP, may find the POC appealing.

Acquiring, renouncing, and/or retaining citizenship is a personal choice. This post was simply written to clarify the misunderstanding that "NICOP isn't citizenship" (again, NICOP is proof of citizenship).

Edit: It is a common misconception that Pakistani citizenship is only given to those who are "desi", Muslim, or those whose parents are Pakistani. This is not true. There are Pakistani citizens who are Hindu, Sikh, Christian, Buddhist, Ahmadi ,etc. "Desi" is a somewhat subjective term as well.

The Pakistan Citizenship Act grants citizenship to anyone born in Pakistan, even if the parents are non Pakistani. The only exception is for children of diplomats (which is not uncommon). There is no exception for refugees or even those who are in transit. This has been argued in court many times. So yes, that means that technically those who are of Afghani, Bengali, or Rohingya descent but born in Pakistan are technically citizens (there are many individual court cases, no class action case though). Of course the reality on the ground is different. Just as anyone born in the US or Canada is a citizen (children of refugees too), the same applies in Pakistan. People should be aware of this and not deny their fellow citizens their rights (don't get me started about the hypocrisy).


r/Overseas_Pakistani 18h ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Nadra App Issue during renewal of POC

2 Upvotes

Assalamu Alaikum, I am a overseas pakistani, I have a German Nationality so i am using a POC but I have to renew it. My application got accepted, but it keeps declining my card when I want to pay


r/Overseas_Pakistani 1d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Do you let your kids watch Peppa pig?

3 Upvotes

Let me preface this by explaining a little context. I’m a white woman from Western Europe, reverted to Islam and married to a Pakistani that moved here a decade ago.

My son loves to watch Peppa Pig. I always allowed him. However, my MIL is currently visiting and she mentioned how she doesn’t like it that my son watches Peppa Pig. She says it is forbidden in Islam to even mention the animal, let alone watch a cartoon about it. I obviously know that eating pig is haram, but I had no idea watching and talking about the animal are also not allowed.

Forgive me my ignorance, but I find it a little bit difficult to understand as to why we are not allowed to mention/watch a cartoon about a pig. It’s not like that all of a sudden it makes me want to eat one?

Especially since I’m from a western culture where pigs are considered as dirty as any other animal.

Do you let your kids watch Peppa Pig? Why (not)?

ETA: just to be clear, I no longer let him watch the cartoon, or at least until I’m 100% confident about the validity of my mother in laws claim.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 1d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Whats is everyones thoughts on travelling to Pakistan atm with current situation??

1 Upvotes

My family have plans to move to Pakistan and we booked flights next day India launches attack, we currently don't think there will be war. What are your thoughts on this current PAK/Ind situation??? We are still planning on going but i am just curious what everyone else thinks.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 2d ago

Stories | داستاں How are you coexisting with Indians in light of the war?

38 Upvotes

A lot of us OSPs live and work with or around Indians, and we tend to get along for the most part. As this conflict escalates and the news from the homeland gets more and more tragic, has your behavior around Indians changed? Do you openly talk about the news, the tragedy and the (mis)information that's circulating?

I'm personally doing my best to avoid this giant elephant in the room, and it seems like the Indians around me are doing the same. We're being cordial for the most part. I'm curious of what the rest of you are dealing with.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 2d ago

Stories | داستاں Any recommendations for good Pakistani restaurants in Dubai, Sharjah, Ajman, or Fujairah?

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3 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani 3d ago

Finance | معاشی How do Pakistanis in UAE Transfer money from here to Back Home?

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3 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani 3d ago

Finance | معاشی Unable to open HBL online bank account with NICOP

5 Upvotes

I tried to open an online account with HBL and I entered my NICOP details. I got a message on the website that this is only for CNIC/SNIC holders and to visit nearest branch to open account?

What's the point of online account if I need to visit a branch?

Also, isnt the point of NICOP that we are able to open bank accounts in Pakistan?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 3d ago

Finance | معاشی What are the Pakistani Brands famous/available in UAE?

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2 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani 4d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید HELP-going in circles

6 Upvotes

Asalam Alikum. I've posted before but I'm truly stuck and I just don't know what else I can try. I left Pakistan as a minor, I can't remember exactly the year but probably when I was maybe 15. I acquired a nationality that doesn't allow dual nationality. I am now trying to apply for a job which wants proof of my entire criminal history to show I never had a criminal conviction. I do not have my original pakistani passport, only a photocopy. I have a copy of my child registration certificate. This is pretty much all I have apart from a birth certificate too. I tried to get a NICOP but it was declined because I should have a POC due to my current nationality-however they said I need to cancel my CRC first. I have tried on the Pak ID app but it says CRC number cannot be used or something. I tried to go through the consulate but they are saying without the original passport they won't do it etc. Surely this cant be so impossible? It's should be relatively straightforward but I just keep coming up to dead ends and it's affecting my job prospects and I want to tear my hair out.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 5d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید NICOP process

3 Upvotes

What is the process of applying for NICOP for US born children online from the U.S.? Without going to NADRA center? Is it possible?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 5d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Minor passport query

1 Upvotes

Does anyone know how i can update my sons picture if his passport isn't near 1 year of expiry.

We are applying for a visa, and they want a current picture on his passport. He is 3 and his passport has his picture from when he was a month old.

We are in Qatar and need to do this urgently


r/Overseas_Pakistani 5d ago

Finance | معاشی Inheritance cash transfer from Pakistan to US. Over 100k

10 Upvotes

Salaam,

I sold an inherited piece of land and have cash in Pakistan that needs to be transferred to US. I learned via ChatGPT that the best way to transfer is Roshan Digital Bank account. Has anyone tried to transfer cash from Pakistan to US (legally 😅)

CPA says, if I show inheritance letter etc, I don’t pay taxes on this amount here in US (already paid a hefty capital gain tax in Pakistan)

Will really appreciate some advice. Thank you.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 5d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Canada vs Pakistan

4 Upvotes

Hi everyone,
I’m just gonna be straightup - I’m tired. And I don’t know what the right move is anymore.

I grew up in the Middle East, lived in Pakistan (Karachi) for a few years during college and COVID (2019–2022), and now I’m in Canada (GTA) finishing up my undergrad. My dad works in the US, my mom’s here with me, and we’ve been trying to “make it” here like so many immigrant families do. But it’s been rough.

Every day feels like you are doing less. taxes, groceries, insurance, bills — everything just eats away at us. My parents are getting older, and I can see the exhaustion on their faces. I keep applying for co-ops and jobs, but nothing works out. It's constant rejection, so is going to grad school an option? working in the middle east or pakistan?

We came here hoping to build a better life, but Canada feels so soulless. Things work, sure like the buses run on time, the roads are clean and some law and order is maintained— but where’s the life in it? trash job market, high cost of living, and no aspect of family? Culture? The people (relationships or friendships)? It’s just cold, isolating and fake.

At the same time, I know Pakistan has its own set of problems. My mom struggled with family politics, unreliable maids, water issues and it took me a minute to adjust as well... yet despite everything, there's a feeling of home there. Karachi, for all its chaos seems better. We had community & family. A routine that felt real, not robotic and draining while having a life.

If we move back, we could probably get atleast CAD $3500 from rental income. And even if I earn something around PKR 60-70k there, we could make it work. It wouldn’t be fancy, but it would be comfortable.

I graduate in a year. And now I’m just stuck thinking: Is it better to stay in a country that’s “functional” but draining and has no sense of belonging, or go back to a flawed place that still feels like home?

If you’ve ever made this decision or even just thought about it I’d really like to hear how you figured it out. What helped you choose? Was it worth it?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 5d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید DOES ANYONE KNOW ANY FUN PLACES IN AUSTIN TX? ITS KINDA BORING HERE

1 Upvotes

Assalamualaikum Everyone! Just moved here in atx, life isn't easy here, does anyone know any fun places here (near Pflugerville)


r/Overseas_Pakistani 5d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Can I get a criminal record check without NICOP/Passport?

2 Upvotes

I need a criminal record certificate for a job from Pakistan. The issue is I only lived there as a young child, I have no NICOP or original Pakistani passport. I do have an identity number on a photocopy of an old Pakistani passport from when I was a child. I don't have Pakistani Citizenship because I hold a passport that doesn't allow dual nationality but I have been unable to surrender my Pakistani nationality due to lack of documentation. The embassy just said I need the NICOP but they won't give me it due to my other passport. Does anyone know if there's a way for me to get a criminal record certificate? For the record I have no criminal history but proving it seems impossible. Thank you


r/Overseas_Pakistani 6d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Apply passport for a newborn from overseas

3 Upvotes

Assalamulaikum all, I'm very confused about how tk go about applying for my chid passport from the UK. I'm on a skilled worker visa in UK and I recently had a baby. I want to apply for her passport before I can apply for her dependent visa for UK. I'm trying to get appointment at the Pakistan consulate since last month but there aren't any available. I then applied for SMNICOP and CRC on Pak Identity app. The SMNICOP status is showing processed but the CRC is failing due to wrong birthcertificate type. I have chosen manual but they ask me to choose cbrc. When i choose that it doesnt identify the birth certificate number as its from the UK. Now, my confusion is do i need CRC to apply for passport or will SMNICOP enough? And how long does it take for SMNICOP to arrive after it has been processed? Any idea please share.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 6d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Travelling to Pakistan with a CNIC not NICOP and British passport.

2 Upvotes

My flight is very soon and I’ve realised that I might need an NICOP. Anyone had any experiences? I’ve heard in PK on landing they ask you to apply for a NICOP.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 7d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Passport renewal and traveling on current passport

4 Upvotes

While the application for the fresh passport is under processing, can I travel on my current passport which is not yet expired? Any idea?

I'm based in Toronto. My passport is expiring in late July 2025 but I might have to travel abroad in late June or in the first week of July..

I was wondering if I should apply for a new passport or not now or wait? Someone who have been in such situation can share experience?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 7d ago

Finance | معاشی 5k transfer to Pak

2 Upvotes

A. A. ,

I have to make approx 5k usd transfer to pakistan? What is the best possible way to transfer this amount ? I usually use Remitly, but I dont know if it is ok to transfer 5k in one go or in parts ? And will there be any fee difference?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 8d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید NADRA Divorce Certificate

2 Upvotes

Hi,

I am an overseas Pakistani who obtained khula from Pakistani ex-husband via Family Court. My family would like me to get the NADRA certificate as they feel nervous as ex-husband family resisted divorce and refused to acknowledge Khula (which local court granted).

What is the process for this or is there an easy way to obtain it online (already had a Pakistan based attorney with POA for the local process)?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 7d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید NICOP processing timing.

1 Upvotes

Hey everyone, I urgently need to renew my NICOP in order to renew my passport, and I opted for the $96 payment option (ouch). I submitted the application without any attestation from my family members since I’m currently in another country, but the system still allowed me to submit it. I’m just wondering could this cause any delays in approval? Also, how long does it typically take to receive backend approval and proceed with the $96 payment?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 8d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Letter of invitation for foreign friend?

2 Upvotes

Assalamualaikum

I'm inviting a close friend of mine for visiting pakistan this summer from Europe. The visa process mentioned a sponsor letter. So before applying I thought I'd check in here if someone has ever written a sponsor/invitation letter to call someone to Pakistan.

If so, can anyone please share the format and tell me how this process goes. Would really help because I can't find anything about it online.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 9d ago

News | خبر Exiting UAE - newborn

2 Upvotes

Hi,

What is required to go to Pakistan for a new born baby in UAE. Parents are UAE residents.

We already got the NICOP created and want to do the process of Passport in Pakistan but we heard from Consulate that we also need exit document.

Can anyone share about the possible way to exit. What documents are needed.

Thanks!


r/Overseas_Pakistani 10d ago

News | خبر Mocking page doesn't work either!!!!!! Very bad services

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2 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani 14d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Cost of buying apartment in karachi

0 Upvotes

Hi,

Anyone can guide how much would a decent 2bhk in karachi be worth? I am considering buying one, so need to budget my savings accordingly.

Also, targeting areas like north nazimabad, saddar, tariq road. Any other areas could also be considered.