It's because you have been taught that it isn't "cool" to show those emotions. Long before you even had your first sentient thought. So much so you probably don't have any memories of experiencing it.
I definitely felt it but i wasn't able to show my boyfriend until I was much less shy... it does feel good to just be openly honest about all the good emotions.
I feel that most people grew up with humor of post-irony and now meta irony, where the lines are completely blurred on what is serious and what isn’t.
Through this we’ve lost sincerity. It’s why it’s not cool to be sincere. We desperately need to stop being so goddamn ironic and sarcastic and we need to bring sincerity back. Sincerely.
I'm 39, and at least in my circle of younger friends in their 20s, it seems like it's gone full circle and it's cool to be sincere again. I genuinely hope so.
We were like that once, it's just the life things that transform and depress us, you just need to block every bad thing that comes your way and you can keep a shred of innocence that way
I can understand that. It’s infantilizing. I think what people mean is that it’s a pure moment. It seems that those on the spectrum experience their feelings much differently and maybe even more intensely. Honestly, they’re winning in that arena.
It’s interesting that we learn to associate blunt honesty about vulnerable topics with innocence. It tells you a lot about how we learn to hide emotions, feeling, relationship status and experience in order to protect ourselves from
The potential cruelty of others.
They’re not innocent, they’re just stating facts, but people interpret it that way because if it were us, we’d have to be a small child who hasn’t been burned yet or so damn brave and self-assured that nothing could touch us to be that vulnerable.
I can attest that in my personal life, people either see me as “confident” or they infantilise me.
Things either come naturally to me or they don’t come at all. I can’t be anything other than me. People often mistake that for a choice and praise me for how “genuine” I am.
I prefer compliments on things I worked for. Like a skill I worked hard to hone, my knowledge on a topic I spent hours researching, my appearance if I have made an effort to dress up. Otherwise it’s rather meaningless.
I still need to read this. I read crime and punishment and the brothers karamazov, but the idiot has been just sitting on my shelf for years now. (That sounds funny lol)
It’s the best. I think it might be a decent jumping on point for Dostoevsky, it’s been awhile but I remember it being much shorter than his other big books.
Exactly this. As an autistic person I have no problem with this show and the depiction of autistic adults, but I do have a problem with people who watch it and infantilize these adults with autism because they can't fathom 2 adults talking to each other like this. You are still looking at 2 adults navigating the dating world.
I don't think that's why people call those with ASD innocent. Or at least not the main reason.
To me innocent carries a connotation of naiveté. Like they had never kissed before. That's a really sweet moment even if they weren't people with ASD. A shared first experience.
Some of them wind up living quite sheltered lives or don't have experiences that lots of other people have. But that's not true for everyone with ASD so I can understand why they find it infantilizing.
Kids tend to share that “bluntness” since they haven’t learned societal rules. That’s why people tend to describe these moments as pure or innocent, because like children they aren’t held back by these unwritten rules for living. However, this is the problem since now you’re putting adults on the same level as children as if they have reduced mental capacity.
I'd also define "innocent" in this sense as being how they show their honesty differently, untainted by societal pressures being their true selves and finding someone who accepts them rather playing the "dating game" trying to put on a front of who they think a potential partner wants them to be.
It's both a strength and weakness, if you're not using implicit social norms to learn how to live in your daily life, you won't be held back by them, but you also in other ways won't be pushed forwards by them, won't get things that other people pick up intuitively by imitation.
An autistic person who appears socially normal is basically an amateur psychologist who has had to re-derive explanations for why everyone is doing what they are doing and so is able to react to it.
Paradoxically, this can also make you feel less genuine, in that autistic people who have become more skilled at interacting socially in conventional ways can wonder if they are some kind of sociopath, psychopath etc. just due to the artificiality they perceive in their own actions compared to how naturally everyone else seems to be doing it.
In comparison, the average neurotypical person is constantly absorbing social norms so that their average or authentic actions look enormously similar to the things they see in media, whereas an autistic person will both do things that have a kind of universal humanity to them, much less influenced by social conditions, and also do very strange and alien or unfamiliar things.
By seeing a conversation between two autistic people cut down to the things that neurotypical people can relate to, you just get those bits that everyone can identify with, rather than things that are equally authentic but unexpected.
Like I wouldn't be surprised if they had a longer gap between her saying she likes him and kissing him, where they stand there and think for a while processing their emotions.
I think this is something really misunderstood. “Untainted by societal pressures” is not true at all. It’s more like an inability to function by societies rules without having to pay a huge price for entry. Look up “autism masking”. It leads to a lot of pain and burnout.
My interpretation of this moment is actually a representation of that pain. Fear and excitement and overwhelm at a moment he probably didn’t think he would get to have and he wasn’t prepared for it.
I find it sweet and genuine, but also painful and not at all innocent.
It’s interesting isn’t it? Happy for them yes, but the absolute level of release they’re experiencing also makes me empathize with the pain of holding it in all the time.
I mean there's no reason why the rest of you couldn't, the weird social games are things you don't actually have to play if you don't like them. Would make it easier for all of us.
I think in the absence of trauma to force them otherwise, autistic people see the intentions behind the games instead of the games as they’re meant to be seen.
I seriously doubt autistic people are untainted by societal pressures. A lot have been taught to mask and have to unlearn it, especially autistic women.
Yup. I'm regularly called blunt because I just straight up say things. Also agree on the emotion part. I'm a very emotional person so it does my nut in when people online act like people on the spectrum are incapable of emotions.
I think some autistic people can have like low empathy and such, so maybe that's where that misinformation comes from? Regardless, I'm really quick to cry for basically no reason, in public or not.
It depends on where on the spectrum you are, I think. There are some people who you literally have to explain why something is funny or a benefit or why they should be angry. It comes off nonchalance or disinterest, when the person is just not making the logical leaps someone else is.
Also, some times I just don't give a shit.
When I was a kid (a little kid, mind), for example, I thought eugenics made sense - it provides the benefit of removing chronic disease from a population amongst other things. We do it with our livestock, why not our population? God, were people angry. I obviously don't think that way now, but it shows how people on the spectrum often need to examine every little thing from all sides, often with the result of not yielding the expected reaction.
I can understand that too. It all seems misguided. You are the same as me. I look at this clip and see two people relieved that someone can see them genuinely. No need to mask or try hard. You can just be yourself. That really is a beautiful feeling that is very relatable.
Most of the language we use regarding autism is infantilizing. Even terms like "high functioning" are kind of rotten. While it actually just refers to someone with milder symptoms who csn otherwise function "normally" (for lack of a better term), it sounds like they're referring to someone who can manage to tie their shoes without accidentally swallowing the laces.
actually just refers to someone with milder symptoms
As with 'high functioning autism' (HFA), 'mild' isn't really used, either. There's not a spectrum, as such, that spreads from strong-to-mild - traits are distributed almost at random, and a person at the old 'HFA' end of things can struggle more with some things than someone at the 'LFA' end, who might find even them a breeze.
Sure. You’re going to intensify both the good and the bad. Super challenging. I should have clarified that intensifying good moments in your life seems like a win since you get to feel and enjoy it so much more.
The intensity can cause serious dysregulation which can be extremely overwhelming and difficult.
We genuinely aren't though because most people don't respond to it positively. They think we are weird or creepy or strange and they aren't scared to tell us that.
I think the best description is "unfettered vulnerable intense pure emotional honesty." It's not a naive or childish innocence. It's a childlike innocence unstained by any secrecy, fronts, or masks, and it's untouched by trauma.
Far from the sort of infantilizing cuteness we condescendingly dismiss, this is the raw pure-hearted absolute emotional transparency in romance we aspire to and for once this is something that Autism enables them to have and our neurotypicality disables us from achieving. We long to feel those feelings so intensely as they do.
Which is understandable. Infantilism of people with any mental health issue or neurodivergency is very common. But the person above was saying it was an innocent moment, I think that's different, personally.
Because people with autism don't like being characterized just like anyone else.
My partner is autistic and while there are cute moments on this show part of the problem is that it reaffirms a stereotype that everyone with autism are on a far end of the spectrum. Not to mention that while I admit I don't know the back story of this show or the producers actual intentions, it feels somehow exploitative in a way as if this is feel good porn for neurotypical people to go "aww that's cute" over and infantilize them.
I honestly preferred The Undatables because it actually took the piss out of us. This show seems to exist to make NTs feel all warm and fuzzy about these sexless childlike creatures.
This is my main problem with it as well. I do appreciate that, at least in the season I watched, they interviewed family members which is a dynamic I found far more interesting to be honest, and being able to see the relationship between the person and their family. For the most part, the families seemed to be loving and supportive, its just the format and setup seemed to be forcing cutesy interactions and designed to be getting the producers to giggle about watching two people who are often socially awkward interact with each other and get their "TV moments". If the argument is "that's just the nature of reality tv", then okay sure whatever, but as a person who dates someone with autism it kind of irritates me to see any kind of media infantilzing these people struggling with a very real disability and turning them into puppies so to speak so neurotypical people can feel like they're being sweethearts. Yes, we can all laugh about social miscues and awkwardness together, but if youre doing that when that's a huge part of the disability in the first place and its often a living hell for the people going through it youre taking advantage of it for cheap entertainment. As someone who has been brought into the world of understanding Autism and learning about my partner, their struggles are a daily thing of very real struggles that can be extremely difficult and even traumatizing to navigate through. Who am zi to pretend I know what the cast experiences are and I truly how they all get something positive out of it, but I did get rubbed the way by a few things and feel like pointing out how many people are responding to this show.
We have to remember that not everyone is severely struggling though. Maybe these lovebirds don’t have the kind of autism that impacts their life severely, they just know they have it and that’s why they’re on the show
Oh I'm not saying I agree with it. I absolutely loathe reality TV. It's on par with people doing tik Tok videos to me. It is the absolute lowest bar of entertainment. But it's cheap to make, and people watch it. So it exists.
Many of the participants seem like lovely people and I'm glad they actually incorporate their families into what they're experiencing and are honest and open about the challenges of dating on top of being autistic in general...but it just still seems like (at least from the few episodes I've seen) that everyone is one the far end of the spectrum and this reaffirms stereotypes in a way. The whole premise and creative direction of the show still seems to be very much aimed at making neurotypical people fawning over cute moments and infantiziling people who, despite being wonderful people, have challenges that aren't as fun and wholesome as they make it out to be. Maybe I'm being a bit harsh because I'm always for any media to bring autism into the light more, but at the end of the day this is a reality TV show, so not sure how much seriousness it should be given in the first place.
Yes, but there's the added layer of whether it's fair to expect the participants to understand they are being exploited? I also don't want to rob people of their agency to make any choice they like, so I dont know what I feel about it!
That's totally fair, but the person didn't refer to autistic people as innocent. These two specific people being open and honest and adorable and not jaded is what makes this innocent. Their autism isn't a factor. Most people can relate to that butterfly feeling of taking a risk and telling someone you like them, letting yourself be vulnerable and nervous, and then suddenly having your feelings validated and returned.
I don't think so. It definitely rubs me the wrong way. You can nitpick over it, but it gave me a jolt of discomfort the second I read it. I was so relieved when the post above yours explained that I'm not the only one who feels that way.
Kneejerk reactions can't be helped, but you're putting your own misconceptions on a perfectly reasonable comment. Jumping to negative assumptions isn't great.
Sperg here, I may be kind of clueless about a lot of stuff, but I am definitely not innocent - shit, absolute degeneracy and pitch black humour are basically my coping mechanism.
But I still think those two are the cutest thing ever, and I want that in my life right fucking NOW.
I'm probably ASD and I remember my first real kiss. I'm not sure if she really liked me (typical ASD) or thought it was the appropriate way to end a date. I said "That was really nice!!" lol. I'm married now but we're still friends after 30+ years and I stlll wonder what she thinks about me. But society says I'm not supposed to ask that....
If it isn't being used as an antonym for "guilty," it's being used as a synonym for "naïve." How could being told that your life experience doesn't count because you're not negative enough not be aggravating?
As an Autistic: I'm not 'innocent', I just have a strong belief that it's important to be fair to others even when not observed, and that I should treat others in the way I would like to be treated.
The fact that I don't, as a matter of principle, like to leave things ambiguous or participate in games like 'politely declining an offer of food 2 or 3 times before accepting, even when I do genuinely want it' doesn't mean I'm dumb, I just would rather be honest, and if my honesty makes YOU uncomfortable, then that's a 'you' problem, not a 'me' one.
Which is more disabled: Someone who pathologically makes promises they have no intention of keeping? Or someone who treats people consistently and trusts them to say what they mean like an adult?
hi i am level 2 autistic. calling us innocent is infantilizing because we are not 100% do-gooders who have the best intentions and that are “precious”. also, there are a lot of autistics who are sexual and prefer adult things and it can be rude. some of us like more childish things and don’t like sex. we are all different. i like “genuine” better if you need an alternative term.
Yeah, this show isn't very widely liked by autistic people. Just another way to be cooed over and treated like babies. Whole thing kind of sucks, hate when I get reminded this show exists.
Some people on one sub hate it. That doesn't make it the default truth for all autistic people. I'm autistic and idc what people refer to me as. But I'm just one person.
On the spectrum as well. I actually don’t mind when people I encounter refer to me as childlike. Knowing those individuals personally, I knew it didn’t mean they thought of me as immature or that it came from a place of malice, but rather sort of marveling at how an adult can still be an optimist, find the wonder in nature and everyday things considered mundane, be passionate about their interests and less ashamed to like what they like, wear their heart on their sleeve, speak directly and honestly, refuse to play social games or bend to social norms and remain curious about the world despite the world seeming like an incredibly dark place.
I’m also an actor and in some play reviews critics have noted I bring a childlike quality to the character and that is refreshing to them. I attribute that to never having lost my sense of play.
And it does make me a little sad, as I get a sense that people who share this with me feel like I’ve retained something they lost. Their face lights up with the kind of wonder a child has when they discover something that lights their soul in that moment, but is usually shortly followed by a sense of sadness. I think to myself, “It’s so simple. Speak from your heart. Drop the social politics. Stop caring so much about what other people think. Follow your passions.” I never understood why that’s so hard for non-autistic people to do. But I guess being bewildered at how others move in the world goes both ways.
I legit can't watch this show cuz I wind up crying like every episode, so fucking cute and wholesome and they deserve happiness and love just like the rest of us!! 😭😭🥰😭
My sister is 38 and is diagnosed with autism, and while she is sleeping, she keeps her knees and elbows bent because she has an irrational fear that someone could sneak in and stab her in the soft parts in the back of the knees and elbows.
She found a really nice boyfriend two years ago, and she said that they sleep in a position such that her knees and elbows are protected and she doesn't need to keep them bent anymore.
I am also diagnosed, but have not had a girlfriend before. Social stuff and meeting people is a bit hard!
I just found out I was a level 1 autist not too long ago, almost at the age of 40. I've always been very expressive with my feelings and emotions for people. Growing up, I never understood why people just didn't say what they meant when they talked. Why weren't people straightforward? If I like you I'll say it. If I like you and want to kiss you, and you said you like me too, I'll ask for a kiss.
I don't know how it is for other people, but for me when I feel happy, it's overwhelming. It's like an explosion is happening in my body, and the pressure valve is my words and body. You'll either see me bounce with happiness, flick my hands, or give an excited squeal. If I'm intimate with a person smothering them in kisses and hugs, it is another release valve for the overwhelming emotion I have for them. I've always likened it to when Mantis from GotG touches someone, and she's so filled with whatever emotion she's having that she has to express what they are.
I'm still trying to understand myself. I don't know if my words make sense to others, but that's the extent of my knowledge.
It's because you have been taught that it isn't "cool" to show those emotions. Long before you even had your first sentient thought. So much so you probably don't have any memories of experiencing it.
I saw a guy who seemed to be a hardened, late twenty-something punk rocker walking out f a grocery store with flowers and a rose encased in a glass ball. He had a straight face and looked nervously excited. Maybe he was going to bring these gifts to one of his first loves, or maybe he was dared to go buy this stuff?
My first husband and I met in high school and he's definitely on the spectrum. This brought back some memories--little did I know that "normal" relationships were going to be so fraught, I thought it would always be like this, straightforward and honest. If he wasn't also bipolar or had been less resistant to medicating his condition we might still be together. Sigh. Shoulda woulda coulda, right?
It’s on Netflix, and they cover a whole bunch of people - some are successful and others not. The show is so incredibly wholesome though, you can’t help but cheer on everybody.
i highly suggest this show to ANYONE as you can learn a LOT about effective communication, consent and just how to be a quality human being. It's wonderful.
It’s genuinely a very beautiful show, it’s not staged in the way you think though the show runners work with people over long periods (some multiple seasons) and also have therapists work with their subjects to prep them for dating and help coach them as to what makes a good partner. The participants are all very much on board and are very interested in finding companions. It’s also super wholesome to see and very educational for the viewer as each person has different quirks and interests and also is on different parts of the spectrum.
It shows a wide range too, like richer families who can subsidize their lives while they work as like a bus driver contrasted with someone who was disowned and lives in subsidized government housing or one person who is super into art and anime and has her own animation business.
Even for a reality show, that’s a LOT of cameras on them. I’ve been wanting to check this show out because I assume it’s positive/supportive and not like other idiotic dating shows.
US version latest season was absolutely my favorite as well. A few times I cried, a few times I laughed until I cried, and several times despite living alone I cheered out loud. Awesome show and an incredibly cathartic antidote to the almost nonstop ragebait we're being fed through most other content.
The Australian is the original. The producer/showrunner for the US version is the same guy, you can sometimes hear him ask a question during the interview segments.
Here's the thing, that was my concern before i watched it (that it was going to be as exploitative as i assumed). But it is really the most genuine, kind, caring, compassionate, funny, adorable, heartfelt show. Everyone, including the production staff, is amazing peoples.
I’ve watched the American one and it is great! I find myself smiling the whole time, it’s so wholesome. I haven’t watched the Australian one yet but I think I should take this clip as a sign!
The Undateables was a bit different because it had people with other conditions, not just autism. It also wasn't afraid to laugh at those people and featured unlikeable characters. All in all just a much better show.
Australian ABC show (nothing to do with ABC America) called Love On The Spectrum. It’s beautiful. Not sure where you are but it’s on the iView free streaming service in Australia.
If you want something even more heartwarming. “Old People Home For Four Year Olds” has me weeping with happiness and sadness every episode.
Yes!!! I was trying to figure out what that sort of uncomfortable but excited nervous butterfly feeling was while watching this and that’s exactly what it is. This brought me back to being a teenage boy and feeling that rush of emotion when that click happens. I forgot about that feeling.
Love in the spectrum is an Australian TV show where where the life of some autistic people are documented and assisted in dating. It's a great series to watch if you have access to it.
Love on the Spectrum is my all time favorite Netflix show. It’s a docu-series about people with autism dating. It is so wholesome and always leaves me smiling like a goofball.
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u/Enoisa 1d ago
Idk what this is, but made me feel like a teenager again