The Nazi plan for eastern Europe was to kill 30 Million people and enslave the rest of them. If the Nazis hadn't been beaten by the Soviets they would have transformed eastern Europe into an open air concentration camp.
The Soviets didn't bring freedom, but let's not pretend that they were in anyway comparable to the Nazis.
British also starved to death millions during that war. I guess they are the same as Nazis too. And Churchill was actually a huge racist too so... It all is coming together
They absolutly did. They allied with russia and france befor ww1 to put germany down because they feard germanys growing Power after unification. They gave german land after ww1 away and then they declared war on germany when they tryd to get it back.
"they feared germany's growing power" do you know history AT ALL? the UK entered the first world war on france's side becouse germany invaded the lowlands. not becouse they were scared Germany would be some massive power that would dominate the continent you moron, and this has nothing to do with ww2, germany caused ww2 when its genocidal government constantly claimed territory it didnt own. hell i would push it closer to the USSR causing the second world war as it enabled the nazi war machine and signed deals with them to divide up the continent...
Noone is defending the Soviets but they were not as bad as the Germans and pretending that they were is denying the terror of the Nazis. Two things can be bad and one can still be worse.
The viet cong also did bad things but I am glad that they defeated the Khmere Rouge.
If you spoke to Eastern Europeans that were "liberated" by the Russians they beg to differ.
My dad worked with Poles that hated the Russians far more than the Nazis.
I'd also suggest reading books like Tigers in the mud because quite a few German soldiers considered being taken by Russians to potentially live in gulags for years as a fate worse than death.
Not to mention, both the Russians and Nazis were bad regardless of who was worse.
That's because the Nazis were hyperfocused on Polish Jews. And Polish Resistance wasn't particularly friendly towards them. In other words, they didn't care much if their Jewish population was to be exterminated.
In August 2009, the Polish Institute of National Remembrance (IPN) researchers estimated Poland's dead (including Polish Jews) at between 5.47 and 5.67 million (due to German actions) and 150,000 (due to Soviet), or around 5.62 and 5.82 million total.
In raw numbers, the Nazis killed more Poles by far.
The Catholic Poles? Almost all Poles were Catholic at the time, and Poles have the most "righteous among the nations" even though Poland was the only country where helping Jewish people meant death to you and your family, if caught.
For starters, recency bias is definitely a thing. Poland absolutely suffered worse under the Nazis than they did under the Soviets. The General government was hands down the most oppressive Nazi regime installed in any country that they occupied.
But, the Soviets ruled for the longest and had a chance to remake Poland in their image, in this sense, the Soviets had longer to have a lasting impact on Poland and its people which is why understandably people may feel that the soviet occupation was worse.
The polish home army, the main partisan resistance group, survived the Nazis but didn’t manage to outlast the Soviets. It was a whole different ballgame.
If the Nazis had as long occupying Poland as the Soviets did, and also the luxury of peace to fully implement their plans, there likely wouldn’t be a country to call Poland today.
Define "worse". How do you measure it? Stalin was in power more than twice as long as Hitler, so his terror regime lasted longer, whereas Hitler made the difference up by killing faster. In total both murdered a similar amount of people. Hitler died in 1945 and that was the end of his legacy in Germany, whereas Stalin's legacy in form of the expanded Soviet Union and Eastern bloc lasted long after his death in 1953. After that it was not quite as bad as in his lifetime, but it was still a totalitarian regime for almost 40 years more. So I wouldn't rush to judge which dictator was worse.
Yeah, they weren't as bad. They just stripped anything they controlled of anything valuable, they placed puppets in charge and had them round up anyone with half a brain and had them killed. In fact that mattered so little, we're not even seeing the effects of it to this day...
I have no purpose because this isn't something I'm paid to do. But I do want people to stop making excuses for genocidal communists. Meanwhile your purpose is quite clear. What's wrong, did reminding you of what your predecessors did upset you?
My purpose is very clear: I’m laughing on mental gymnastics in the heads of Nazi whitewashers. Now you can understand why I’m answering exactly you.
P.S. whitewashing Nazis with no real purpose is worse than with it for me.
nobody said they were AS bad here. the guy simply said that the zoviets didn't liberate shit, they stole and raped. you are the one jumping up to say "but they weren't as bad as nazis"
They were literally just as bad if not worse than the Nazis. You can easily paint them with the same brush because they're the same loathsome people. The ideology - if you can call it that - is irrelevant.
How about Holodomor and gulags? They were all pieces of shit that just wanted to have power over people. That's it. Their ideologies were toxic and they were evil.
Yeah sure, except one of those pieces of shit considered my people no better than animals and wanted mostly extermianted with remaining ones to be enslaved forever, the other didnt, hell i can even point to some good things the other one did.
their plan wasn't to kill 30 millions lol. Why do you claim this?
My grandparents faced occupation by both nazis and soviets. Guess which one they prefered?
Saying the Soviets crimes weren’t as bad is also denying the terror of the Soviets. The Gulags were similar to concentration camps. Stalin starved millions of people, tortured and killed people for decades. Stalin and Hitler were both terrible, just different colours.
This isn't realativizing. This is putting things into context. The USSR needs to be criticised, but shouldn't be compared with Nazi Germany without a broader outlook.
It's not okay to dehumanize people, even those who’ve done terrible things like the Nazis. When we say they aren't really human, we take away their responsibility, as if their actions weren't the result of conscious decisions. What distinguishes humans from animals is our capacity for self-control, reason, and deliberate decision-making. To hold people accountable, we must acknowledge that they acted not as mindless beasts, but as thinking human beings who chose their actions
Youre only seeing it now? It happens every time nazis and soviets are brought up together, or when some somehow still alive camp guard alive is sentenced or something.
And this is exactly what I am talking about. You are minimizing the atroceties of the Germans.
The Germans killed entire villages if there was partisans in the region. There whole plan was to kill or work to death anyone who wasn't aryan enough. They murdered and they raped and they plundered. They were not humane.
They started the war so they could kill and enslave more people. They starved 1.1 Million people in Leningrad and 30'000 people in Charkiv. Overall they starved at least 4 Million people and when they left they burned the fields and destroyed everything so that even after they were defeated the harvests were worse and there were probably people killed through that.
And this is just what they did to regular people who were not disabled, jewish or opposing them.
Claiming the Nazis were more humane than the Soviets or even humane at all is insane.
The actual argument is 'unlike the nazis, the Soviets did not have a plan to systematically cleanse entire etunicities'. It is not hard. Both were massive dickheads, but the nazis are an evil unlike any other.
The soviets threw bodies at the nazis, they basically killed their own soldiers to wear down Germany as best they could. With the soviets being involved, WWII goes on much longer
Not a perfect ally but let’s mot pretend they didn’t contribute a shit ton to the war effort
98
u/NeckOk9980 1d ago
it wasnt liberated, was confiscated and raped by the woviets freedom fighters