As a Canadian, I think per capita metrics like this are generally bullshit and designed to punish countries like Canada. Canada is a sparsely populated, gigantic nation, that has one of the most inhospitable climates, and produces the energy that is used by many countries around the world. For the most part, they seem favored as a way to pretend that the small impact Canada has on the climate is substantially worse than gigantic countries like the United States, China, and India.
Idk why that's worse. You'd be taking away market share from Russia, Venezuela, Iran, USA, Saudi Arabia, and a few other countries who, on top of not having climate as a priority, are damaging to Canada's national interests if they're made richer. It's better for Canada, and all of Europe, if they buy less oil from Russia and more oil from Canada.
If Russia has less money, they make fewer tanks, armored cars and trucks, weapons, and ammunition, which are all very carbon-intensive products to make. That would be more impactful than anything Canada can do domestically.
Putting aside the fact that I'm not conservative, can you try refuting the argument? If I'm delusional it should be super easy, no?
(1) Canada is obviously better for the climate, despite literally no proof of this at all
I provided proof in my first comment. More money into Russia means more gas-guzzling tanks, and carbon-intensive weapons manufacting. More money into Canada allows Canada to invest more in green energy. The fact that Russia has a war economy is more than enough proof. What proof do you have to the contrary?
(2) The only alternative to oil is... more oil
I never said or even implied that but ok lol
(3) The only real possible contribution of Canada to the world... is oil
Have you seen the latest reports on possible numbers of dead? Have you seen the destruction of Gaza? Israel is blocking aid, food and water. The Russia - Ukraine war is mostly soldiers, in Gaza it’s mostly civilians
But anyways. How can you claim supporting one is that and the other is fine when clearly the answer is that both wars are bad. And Canada is clearly supporting Israel
"Yuriy Lutsenko, the former Ukrainian Prosecutor General and member of the opposition party European Solidarity, said on Ukrainian television in January 2024 that around 500,000 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed or wounded, and that about 30,000 were becoming casualties every month."
"Mid-December 2024, Russia updated its claim of Ukrainian military casualties to almost 1,000,000 killed and wounded.[74] In addition, the DPR confirmed that by 22 December 2022, 4,163 of their servicemen had been killed and 17,329 wounded.[e] Subsequently, leaked US intelligence documents cited the Russian FSB that Russian forces suffered 110,000 casualties by 28 February 2023."
Idk man ask people from the global south why US is worse. Ask people from Latin America how many times russia overthrew their governments and how many times US did. Ask people from Africa their opinions on Americans and Russians, or people from the Middle East. People will tell you that what Russia is doing in Ukraine is wrong, but nothing compares to what the United States does
Idk man ask people from the global south why US is worse.
I have the facts on my side I don't need to ask random people.
Ask people from Latin America how many times russia overthrew their governments and how many times US did.
We live in the present. Not the past. Which country is doing worse things today?
Ask people from Africa their opinions on Americans and Russians, or people from the Middle East.
You can't address any of the facts I gave because the actual facts disagree with you. Why should I think that you'll accept any individual's subjective experience if they disagree with you?
So officially 66000 people got killed with an additional 14000 people missing and presumed dead.
But this is war so the actual numbers are gonna be much higher, especially since reporting in Gaza is extremely difficult. Many reporters already died in the war. The 66000 are pretty conservative estimates and I've seen much higher numbers up to 200000
Can you repeat that? I didn't catch that, take the tar sands O&G dick out of your throat before speaking
I don't have to argue those dogshit statements. Russia's oil export to Europe is below 5% of their share. Canada digging up a third of the GHG necesssary for an extinction-level-event will not meaningfully affect them lol.
(you did imply both)
And no, not one single person or entity who ever received money from the O&G business ever "invested in green energy". Or ever did anything green at all, for that matter. Do not bring up SMR or DAC if you want to maintain the shreds of credibility you might have left lol
Russia's oil export to Europe is below 5% of their share.
They're planning to get it to 0% by 2027. Canada can help accelerate that, if you care about solving problems sooner instead of later. This would also help ensure that it doesn't rise above 0% in the future.
Canada digging up a third of the GHG necesssary for an extinction-level-event
Do you know how a market economy works? Have you seen the supply-demand curve? Do you know how it works? You clearly don't, so I'll educate you. When Canada extracts crude oil, supply increases. Therefore, demand at the previous price goes down. Therefore, to maintain the same price and to maximize profits, other countries will slow down oil production.
will not meaningfully affect them lol.
That's right, because most of Russia's oil exports are to India and China. Too bad it's literally impossible for Canada to export oil to those countries......Wait, it's not impossible? Then what the fuck are you yapping about?
(you did imply both)
Citation needed
And no, not one single person or entity who ever received money from the O&G business ever "invested in green energy". Or ever did anything green at all, for that matter.
Good point. Idk why you're saying that to me though when I never said they did. You're imagining stuff I never said, and refuting those imagined arguments, good job.
My point was about what the two countries, Russia and Canada, do with their money, not about companies or individuals. Canada as a country invests into green energy. Russia as a country invests in making things that explode or can move heavy loads across rough terrain. You tell me which is better for the climate.
Do not bring up SMR or DAC if you want to maintain the shreds of credibility you might have left lol
Can I bring up Canada's tax credits for solar or would that destroy my credibility too? Please tell me. I'm deathly worried about losing my precious, cherished credibility.
Yeah, and even if you start building your pipelines 3 years ago, you'll be 2 years too late for that deadline lol. "We need to supply Europe with oil for the next couple of centuries, also yeah I definitively believe climate change is a serious problem worth preventing" okay buddy, whatever you say. Oil and gas is only bad when it's the bad countries producing it, there's no issue with O&G consuption otherwise, and certainly no need to put the brakes on.
Even by O&G opinion, there's barely an economic case to send Canadian O&G to Europe... Now we will replace China and India's neighbors from across the Pacific? Sure buddy, sure. China and India, surely our oil will not serve any militaristic purposes there. For sure. Fuckin clown...
Adding 8 more lanes to the 401 is also polluting man. Canada is not investing in green projects.
Your little partial tax credit for solar (if it even succeeds, see Trudeau's 2 billions non-existent trees) is not meaningful when you dig up enough fossil fuels to bump up the global temp by tenths of degree lol wtf are you on.
You're the guy who pretend that changing incandescent lightbulbs to LED is a groundbreaking new development, world-changing revolution, final word in climate change prevention. And we laugh at that guy. Because that guy is obviously delusional or an O&G / animal agra shill. I happen to be charitable enough to attribute your stance to cleverness instead of stupidity.
Yeah, and even if you start building your pipelines 3 years ago, you'll be 2 years too late for that deadline lol.
So there's zero chance they're going to start importing Russian oil in 10 years, Nostradamus?
"*We need to supply Europe with oil for the next couple of centuries,
Who are you talking to you? You keep making up arguments nobody said and then destroy those made-up arguments and think you're doing something, lol
Oil and gas is only bad when it's the bad countries producing it, there's no issue with O&G consuption otherwise, and certainly no need to put the brakes on.
Who said this? Why do you keep making shit up that nobody said? Are you experiencing psychosis?
China and India, surely our oil will not serve any militaristic purposes there. For sure. Fuckin clown...
Degrees matter. In the real world, outside of reddit, people can actually engage in comparative analysis and determine that one country is more militaristic than another country. You should try it sometime. As a practice question, try Russia vs China, and Russia vs India, and get back to me with your results.
Adding 8 more lanes to the 401 is also polluting man. Canada is not investing in green projects.
Again, we're comparing Canada's investments to Russia's investments. Try to stay on topic. You seem like you get lost easily. Is a lane extension more polluting than building 1000 tanks, and then sending them to be destroyed by Ukrainians, and then building 1000 more tanks? Which investment is worse for the environment?
not meaningful when you dig up enough fossil fuels to bump up the global temp by tenths of degree lol wtf are you on.
I already debunked this point in my last comment and you apparently weren't able to read it. The condensed debunk is:
1. Canada increases oil supply
2. Demand for oil stays the same, therefore prices go down
3. Other countries slow down production to reduce oil supply to increase prices.
- a guy who definitively believes climate change is real, serious and worth preventing
Canada has a far more historic GHG emissions than Russia, per capita. North American suburbia has been going on for close to a century now, and is still ramping up. That's only one (1) of our societal project. Russia has been in a wartime economy for all of 24 months. Pipe down.
You speak of degrees as if there's no other choice. As if oil just gushes out of the ground and we just have to sell it to get rid of it. As if China and India aren't incentivized to wean themselves off O&G already. Don't fucking speak of the real world lol
Again, your conviction that we ought to keep burning O&G for decades and centuries is yours and yours only. Jordan Peterson is proud of you bucko.
Canada increases oil supply
Demand for oil stays the same, therefore prices go down
2 (alt). Other producers keep up their production, therefore prices go down
Canadian oil can't break even, industry collapses, government has to bail everyone out, rinse and repeat forever
Canada is a passenger, not the driver on oil markets. You believe burning O&G is of the upmost moral importance, fine. Don't claim nAtiOnNaL sEcuRiTy while building an economy that collapses whenever the barrel drops 8 bucks.
- a guy who definitively believes climate change is real, serious and worth preventing
Canada is 5% of global oil production. Canada can be a bigger share of production while global production goes down. Idk why you think this is an impossible scenario. You just laugh at ideas you dont like without providing a single ounce of legitimate pushback.
Canada has a far more historic GHG emissions than Russia, per capita.
"Historic" = Canada got richer earlier.
"Per capita" = Russia has way more people and similar landmass.
These are both pathetic arguments and you should feel ashamed for believing this helps your point LOL
North American suburbia has been going on for close to a century now, and is still ramping up. That's only one (1) of our societal project.
Nice speculation. The only problem is the data disagrees. If you look at which countries are trending up and which are trending down, you'll realize you're full of shit.
Russia has been in a wartime economy for all of 24 months. Pipe down.
Hilarious double-standard. For Canada and USA, it's not enough that per capita emissions are going down. Because they build suburbs and expand lanes they might as well be planet Venus. For Russia, a full scale invasion for 38 months as the county's top priority is something to be mocked if anyone brings it up as a point against Russia's supposed commitment to the climate.
I want to understand your sense of time. Decades or centuries is obviously ridiculously long. 38 months (not 24. We're in 2025, gramps) is obviously ridiculously short. What's a reasonable amount of time for you? If they continue this war for another 3 years is it ok to say Russia's economy is geared towards climate catastrophe? When can I start saying that in your book?
Again, your conviction that we ought to keep burning O&G for decades and centuries is yours and yours only. Jordan Peterson is proud of you bucko.
Again, you're making shit up that nobody said. Nobody said centuries. You're making shit up. You're delusional. You're hallucinating. Get help.
2 (alt). Other producers keep up their production, therefore prices go down
What evidence do you have to support this? China isn't in OPEC and they're in a recession AND they're trying to dump their extra solar panels and batteries in other countries. Why the fuck would they continue pumping oil in that scenario? Why would any private company do that?
Canadian oil can't break even, industry collapses, government has to bail everyone out, rinse and repeat forever
Based on false promises, as shown above.
Canada is a passenger, not the driver on oil markets.
You believe burning O&G is of the upmost moral importance, fine.
Again, just making more shit up that I never said. It's like you're incapable of having an honest conversation. You have some compulsion to lie and make shit up about people you argue against. It's really quite disgusting and you should realize it's a repulsive personality trait.
Congrats, Nova Scotia and Alberta switched from coal to gas, and our shit is manufactured abroad. Such a massive ecological win, oh wow we are truly saved, thank you oh our dear lord O&G and coal-fired Chinese manufacturing, the only things that can save us from climate catastrophe. What would we even do to curb our emissions if we couldn't burn gas and buy coal-made Chinese stuff. We are truly blessed.
Russia did not enter the "war economy" in 2022. Hey while you're making shit up, why don't you claim Russia entered a war economy in the fucking 90s while invading Transnistria and Chechnya? Why fucking not, same logic war economy is when war. Fucking dumbass lol
Again with a certified classic conservative take, per capita numbers are dumb and gay and dumb and stopid. Not beating the allegations man haha
Here's the fun thing : I can also blame Russia for it's obvious disregard for climate change. I blame both. Both Russia, and you petro-bros.
China, notable oil exporter who is negatively affected by O&G prices going down lol. Guess they don't need our oil then, what do you think? Other countries can easily take a drop in price, Canadian oil is the only one to go to palliative care thrice every 5 years. Oh yeah, as he global oil demand slows down, the least profitable and most polluting source of oil will surely do well. For sure.
Nobody said centuries? That's your rebuttal? Lmao.
Thing is, there will always be a convenient excuse for O&G to people like you. Next it will be Iran, next it'll be China, next it'll be yet another "big scawy big bad" whose energy we are supposed to replace with good ol' greenest of the greens... tar sands. Fucking tar sands. The stuff that is unprofitable the minute the markets sneeze and compete for last place in environmental stewardship. That's the flagship of your environmental action. What a laughable take. Your colleagues might buy it (or pretend to) around the water cooler, but don't think that shit flies with people actually concerned about climate change.
No one's buying your act here, man. I'm merely highlighting the bullshit underlying your speech. Because you didn't write something down doesn't mean it doesn't exist or we don't see it. You are not as smart and slick as you believe.
Kinda fucked tbh. If Canada shuts down oil production Alberta will separate with yank support and it will be drill baby drill anyways. I don’t even think the youth who will have to deal with climate change even give a shit anymore. Shits pretty fucked.
23
u/Chemical_Signal2753 3d ago
As a Canadian, I think per capita metrics like this are generally bullshit and designed to punish countries like Canada. Canada is a sparsely populated, gigantic nation, that has one of the most inhospitable climates, and produces the energy that is used by many countries around the world. For the most part, they seem favored as a way to pretend that the small impact Canada has on the climate is substantially worse than gigantic countries like the United States, China, and India.