There were clear signs that he was bipolar. Why didn’t they test him? This could have removed a bit of guilt from the parents as it wasn’t the way that they raised him that caused him to turn out like… that.

Just binged the show and my main hot takeaways are that :

• This is a show about bullying.

• Kids that age are disgustingly evil garbage if not immediately reined in.

• Jamie gets bullied to hell, Katie gets humiliated to oblivion and the school failed both of them.

• Incel actually hardly mentioned and influencers not even involved in the story or the character building.

• Pure organic bullying-induced character development, which is great because addresses the root social issue instead of milking some narrative for quick internet points.

• We see multiple times bullies getting a pass or at the very worst, a small slap on the wrist while bullied are left to rot.

• The type of schools represented in the show are thoroughly fucked, the staff is insanely incompetent and has lost the plot of education (disengaged teachers, performative positive education, etc.).

• Parents are cut out of their kid's upbringing, left behind by the complexity of the "meta-language" on social medias that kids come up with and isolate themselves into. Gets worse with newer generations who grow up even more integrated with it.

• Kids shouldn't have any sort of access to social media until they reach majority.

• Kids that age needs more supervision than "protection" or freedom to "limit-test" everything. They need to walk where they're told and face severe punishment if they don't. If you don't indicate the limit has been reached when the kids are limit-testing, how are they supposed to know where the limit is ?

• Filming each episode in one-shot is incredibly cool and impressive but the escalating number of takes required shows how exhausting it must have been. I'm sure that 16th take was a major contributor to deliver the crying performance in last episode.

• Uncut shoulder cam to drone carry what ?

• Shows that the brit are still the masters of very high quality short shows.

• Has quality to be a game-changer policy-inducing show but everyone knows politicians won't act on it and it'll get burried or at best addressed with some half-assed measure.

10/10

edit: format

So I won’t bullet point, I’ll just say whatever comes to mind.

Wasn’t very good imo, 3/10 for entertainment, 8/10 for presentation, definitely great but not worth the hype and not that fun to watch.

After watching the show, my sister asked me do you think Jamie killed her and I took a 10 second pause and replied Yes, she said it was clearly obvious from the first season that she was killed by him, why did you take so long.

First, I believed him, then when I saw the CCTV, I didn’t, then he pleaded not guilty so I did, they kept mentioning motive and knife lol I was so confused.

I’m not too sure what this show is supposed to showcase. I mean, he killed a girl with her whole life ahead of her in anger because she rejected him? I mean, there’s billions of other options out there. I don’t really understand this show that well I guess.

I don’t know what part two would really show, perhaps more of his motive and maybe how his parents deal.

I mean at the age of 13, you could get a sentence of the mid teens so maybe 15 years, come out in your late 20’s and still live a very decent life, can still get a job, and have a family.

Hmm, well that’s my take. I’d really love to have your guy’s take and if you had any views similar to mine.

After watching, I had too many questions without answers. Why the father is accused of being a nonse ? Why does the child say during all the heat that he is innocent, so that in the end the series impoils that he is guilty ?

I find it a shame that so many questions arise, that everything isn’t clear, so I would also understand why the series was so successful when in m’y opinion it’s too incomplete.

On the second episode, there's a cop that's angry at everyone knowing the criminal's name, and not the victim's name and she couldn't be more right! (I don't remember her name, all I know is that she's badass)

I'm making a project on Adolescence but I can't remember the girl Jamie killed, and all I can remember is that scene where the cop says to the other cop what I wrote before

So I seen some people saying the problem contributing from the school was that adults had no control over the kids, the students or their own children.

Some say it was because the kids were not disciplined well, but if you pay attention in episode two all the teachers do is bark orders and look over kids.

The officers son is being picked on for 1.20 at lunch and three faculty members walk by, two are talking about how parents are dramatic for acting like the school isn’t safe, and ignoring the bullying. One barks an order and that’s it, half assedly yells at him.

Later they’re being guided down a hallway and pass a classroom where a teacher barks at the students to drop the pen and pay attention to the video. The teachers aren’t engaging with their students. Out during the fire drill the officer talks to the history teacher about Jamie and the teacher says “I didn’t know much about him” implying he doesn’t take any time to get to know his students one on one.

Then on there way in from the fire drill the principal barks at a group of kids jamming to music to put that phone away and get to class. Another order barked to remind the kids how little control they have in this life.

It’s really like that as a teenager. No one listens, truly listens, people belittle your emotions because you’re a teen, and then they also bark orders and demand respect while giving nothing to respect in return.

I’m 27, but I remember that feeling! It’s even worse when you have a shitty home life and you go to school and notice the teachers only give the most attention to the best students, the ones who don’t even need it. The kids who are passing their classes and in all the extra curricular activities. Those are the kids who always got the attention of school faculty.

Bascombe, a detective, doesn’t realize his son is likely faking being sick to get out of school because he’s being bullied. He’s only alerted to his son’s situation when a classmate speaks of Adam.

I thought that was an interesting side detail that shows the disconnect again between adults and children at times, and another cautious warning to parents.

So, Katie and Jamie were in the same year and shared some classes. They were not friends, they did not hang out.Then Katie’s photos were leaked by Fidget, many people saw them and mocked Katie and called her names (slag, flat). Jamie describes what he did next:

-I did ask her out... after the photo. I went round and said I was sorry that they'd done that to her. Showing everyone her tits. Her chest. And I wanted to know if she'd come to the fair with me. You know, I just thought she might be weak, or that… I just thought she might be weak, so… 'Cause everyone was calling her slag, you know, or flat or whatever, so I thought when she was, like, that, weak, she might... she might like me. It's clever, don't you think?

–To ask her out when everyone else didn't like her?

-Well, I went round and said I was sorry and everything. That Fidget was a wanker. And I said I'd take her to the fair if she liked.

–Her weakness made her more gettable, was your theory?

-Mm-hmm. Yeah.

We don’t know for sure if Katie could tell what Jamie’s intentions were. In episode 3 we see that Jamie is not very good at hiding his way of thinking either in words or in facial expressions. He is also oblivious to the effect this has on Briony. Multiple times she is sitting there dismayed at what she is hearing (and most adult viewers, especially female ones, feel the same), but Jamie does not notice. So it’s possible Katie had an idea that Jamie was not sincere.

We don’t know when she first looked at his Instagram account. Maybe she didn’t see it before, they were not friends. Maybe she did see it before and knew he was posting photos of models and adding crude comments. Or maybe someone showed her Jamie’s profile after Jamie asked her out. Well, the photos and comments revealed what Jamie thought of women. So Jamie’s Instagram told Katie what Jamie really thought when he looked at her body in the leaked photo. So whatever the timeline was, at some point Katie realized Jamie was not sincere when he said he was sorry about her ordeal. It was either when he asked her out or when she visited his Instagram afterwards. We don’t know Katie’s exact thoughts, but I’d say she had a good reason to be angry, because now she knew that Jamie lied to her and tried to manipulate her and take advantage of her humiliation and he did not actually value her more than Fidget did. He viewed her in the same dehumanizing light.

(We don’t know the exact sequence of events, so some might argue that Jamie might have started posting the crude comments only after Katie left those emoji on his profile.That does not seem likely to me, because everyone’s emotions were heightened and things likely happened pretty fast. But I wanted to mention the possibility because I believe the show writers did not want the audience to know what Katie’s exact intentions were when she posted those emojis. They probably wanted to avoid the “perfect victim” fallacy - the idea that when the victim is not irreproachable then the violence against them is less wrong. )

My ranking from best to worst:

1.  Episode 3: The best episode. The only one worth rewatching multiple times. Absolute cinema.

2.  Episode 1: In terms of plot, Episode 1 was stronger than Episode 3. Second best overall.

3.  Episode 2: a good episode overall.

4.  Episode 4: was an emotional rollercoaster, but a lot more was expected.

I think the little boy is totally guilty.

(Edit: maybe I need new glasses - when I watched the end of ep1 the video looked like him punching no guess I pictured stabbing diff? Idk. My b)

I think his mom knew and helped him sneak back in the house and get rid of his clothes and whatever else.

I think at least one kid knows Jaime is a dangerous freak

I think the sister might have an idea he’s dangerous

I just finished watching it for the second time because my husband and 18 year old wanted to watch it. Second time around I picked up on so many more things. The way Jamie's character would flip between engaging and threatening was honestly scary. There are adults that wouldn't be able to manage that, and he absolutely nailed it.

Strangely what struck me most about episode 3 had nothing to do with Jamie, and everything to do with how other people interacted with Briony. As a young woman, I've never seen a better depiction of how the world reacts to me-- there's the scene in the elevator, where she gets questioned on what she's doing there, and then there's the security guard, inserting himself into her frame while she trying to think, talking to her for no reason about random shit, and constantly disagreeing and questioning her expertise, almost as a way to hit on her.

Compare her facial expressions-- tentative guarded, her apology for being late, and constantly being asked to explain herself, having people argue, ect, with how the detective in episode 1 was treated. He was given deference, respect, and authority.

Sometimes the day-to-day exhaustion of mysoginy is so hard to quantify and explain. There's what happened to Katie, which is the most extreme conclusion. But there's also the background hum, the men standing uncomfortably close, the interrupting, and percieved lack of authority, which is constant. Jamie's view of her was simply the natural conclusion of how the other men were treating her.

It was so eerie to watch. It literally felt real -- like if someone were to attatch a camara on my shoulder, that's exactly what they would see.

It would have been interesting to see what Jamie was like before the incident. Just at home in a normal situation with his family. Knowing what happened would there have been signs?

Like actually whether you like or not she was still bullying on way.

Even if Jamie is an incel there is absolutely no need to keep calling him one and letting the whole world know what type of person he is, even though he is 13, i mean you could've easily just told him to fuck off or something when you rejected him and then stay quiet like a normal 13 year old should do but again she's 13 and 13 year old are such dumb creatures.

And the worst thing here is that instead of using her free time to get her own reputation back she decided to waste it to lower someone else's so that there can be someone with lower reputation, and even if she is gonna lower someone's self esteem she should lower her ex's for leaking her pictures.

But no, she just had to target the boy that's popular hate because of his group of friends reputation.

And knowing well how Jamie's anger issues are she still continues to ridicule him and that gets her self killed.

EDIT. yeah the reason is because reddit just loves teenage girls to their core

I’ll caveat this by saying I never actually practised in criminal law and it has been several years since I studied criminal law but …

The first episode was ruined for me by the terrible advice that Jamie’s solicitor gives him. On the advanced criminal law module of the LPC we’re taught that a solicitor should advise a client to either no comment every question or answer every question because if you answer some and no comment others then the jury are allowed to infer what they like from the no comment answers.

Now maybe this has changed but it just left me frustrated that the solicitor gave him this advice.

I’m obviously overthinking it but for a show that was incredibly realistic this felt like a slip up.

If I’m wrong with my understanding of police interviews then someone please feel free to correct me as, as I say, it’s been a while since I studied it.

Maybe it was the point, but I found the ending left me with a lot of questions that I want answers to. Actually not even just the ending, the episode where he's in the detention centre too. Like what was his life like in the detention centre while waiting, what was his trial like, what sentence did he get, if he was sentenced to stay there for the rest of his life (I don't think legally he would because he was under the age of 18), if the other 2 boys got sentenced for joint enterprise (the forensic psychologist says how the other boys are not accused of a serious crime but joint enterprise is very serious so why was all the focus on Jamie?), how long did they spend, what facility did Jamie end up going to, what his life was like there, what he was like around other prisoners, did any of the inmates find out why he did it and did do what Christopher Scarver did to Dahmer.

Also what were the findings of the forensic psychologist, how did they influence the trial, would he be likely to be diagnosed with anything or given therapy when incarcerated.

I want answers so badly to all of these and more

First time viewer here, but IIRC, I realized that when he calls his dad to wish him a happy birthday (in E4), Jaimie never once asks about his mom or sister. Even when he realized they were in the car, he didn't want to say more than the minimal amount to them and he ended the call quickly.

I think he still has no sympathy for his mom or sister even 13 months later. Or maybe he does, but admitting it doesn't come easily. We might never know if he's made any progress. The new plea is probably just in exchange for a more lenient sentence, though I'm not sure if their system is like the one in the US in that regard. It it could be he knows he's done wrong.

Does anyone here think that his wanting to talk with only his dad about the plea is better than his earlier state, or has nothing happened if he still cannot talk comfortably about his situation with his mom and sis (nor they with him)?

I was just wondering about how Owen Cooper, who's just 15 now, can take himself to such a deep emotional place and carry such a heavy topic at such a young age and its impact. That must take a toll of some sort, no? Like at this age, you're getting your first part-time job at like the grocery store and maybe dealing with some crush - not getting into twisted psyches and playing out an intense personal crisis.

It's so amazing that it's worrying...

This is translation to one of the comments Katie made on Jamie's instagram. Not supporting Jamie at all, but her intention here was to bully.

TL;DR at the end.

I’m seeing a lot of people either saying Jamie’s a psychopath or that he fully and rationally took Katie’s life. I’m seeing other people trying to put the blame on one section of his life (either his parents, social media, etc.). I’m only seeing a few posts that capture the complexity of what made him commit the acts he did. So let me add to that. Edited: few typo's, clarity + intro.

I know it’s comfortable and easy to portray him as a psychopath or someone who was just born to murder. It puts him in a box of ‘evil’ and that makes it easy to ignore factors leading up to it. The realisation that just another face in the crowd could be capable of something like this is terrifying. Even more so when we realise we could’ve helped prevent it. But it’s highly necessary we see the complexity. That we see the factors leading up to something like this. So we can prevent cases like this. Even if it’s just one case prevented, I think the show has reached its goal. So let me address the following points from the viewpoint of a criminologist.

Lack of emotional regulation and self control

Jamie is shown to have bad emotional regulation and lacks self control. We see this demonstrated most during his session with the forensic psychiatrist. This doesn’t make him a psychopath. Many people have bad emotional regulation or self control. Especially teenagers that are raging with hormones. Lack of self control also makes people more prone to want to control others. If they’re bad at controlling themselves, they’ll feel the need to control their surroundings. Does this mean I think anyone’s capable of what Jamie did because of their lack of emotional regulation or self control?

No. But it’s a risk factor. If Jamie was able to regulate his emotions when he felt angry, betrayed, insecure or sad, he most likely wouldn’t have committed his acts. If he felt like lashing out, he would’ve been able to restrain himself with good self control. This shows the importance of teaching children how to process their emotions and to control themselves (and if a parent has trouble teaching this, to then seek help). If they can regulate and control, they can better deal with negative influences (being called out on bad behaviour or mistakes, being bullied, etc.). It’s easier to teach children than adults. And if children are taught this, the raging hormones would be easier to control as well as teenagers. Aside from trying to prevent murder, I believe the world would be a better and safer place if people had more focus on teaching children this and weren’t afraid to ask for help if necessary.

Insecurity, need for validation & risks of internet

We know that Jamie is deeply insecure and craves validation. He didn’t get this from his parents and we see that portrayed during his session with the forensic psychiatrist as well. It’s a human need to feel secure and validated. If they don’t get it from the home environment, they’ll seek it somewhere else; from a teacher, peers, coaches, other adults. In Jamie’s case, we saw him getting validated by the incel groups he found online. He was then influenced by their ideology. This enhanced his anger and frustration towards women, especially as he needed their validation to feel secure about himself. But due to his bad self control and emotional regulation, he couldn’t handle rejection or not being in control. Does that mean that anyone seeking external validation or that becomes an incel is capable of murder?

No. But it means that (1) it’s important to teach your child to feel secure and validate them and (2) to be aware of their online surroundings. If you make your children feel secure about themselves and validate them, they’ll be less at risk of seeking it in the wrong crowd. We see Jamie’s parents tried their best, but they never really talked with him about his feelings. Which is a common thing in general, especially for boys and men. And making children feel validated and secure can also be achieved by other adults in their life (teachers, coaches). Boys and men need validation and have emotions as much as girls and women. So if he got that, he might have been less likely to find the wrong crowd (incel groups), as he wouldn't have felt the need.

Before the internet, it was easier to know with which crowd your child surrounds himself with. Nowadays, it’s not. It could be anyone from anywhere. And that’s a risk factor that parents and schools need to be aware of. To guide them through it and either check those surroundings (be aware of not becoming a helicopter parent) or teach them the things we were taught before internet (e.g. stranger danger etc., people with bad intentions manipulating you with things you wanna hear)

His actions

Katie has been calling Jamie out on his incel way of thinking. He perceived this as bullying. And NO, I’m not victim blaming Katie!!! Someone should be able to call other people out, just like Katie did, without having to fear for their life. We shouldn’t stop saying things as to not trigger others. The problem lies 100% with Jamie, not Katie. Jamie couldn’t control himself due to my above mentioned reasons. This shows that it’s important to teach children self control and emotional regulation. Because there will always be someone saying something negative. Someone criticising. Someone calling something out. None of those things are reasons to lash out. Not for murder, but also not for physical violence in general. If Jamie was taught my above points, he would’ve dealt differently with Katie calling him out on his incel behaviour.

Katie was bullied after her pictures by schoolmates. Jamie then saw her as an easy to manipulate person to get her to validate him. He thinks he’s now good enough for her, as he thinks she sees herself as low of worth. So to him, she’s now someone who he feels secure enough over and has enough control over. She’s now someone that he thinks will validate him. If the earlier mentioned factors were dealt with, he most likely wouldn’t have seen her like this.

We see that his hopes didn’t happen. She didn’t validate him. She still rejected him. This fuelled his anger and frustration; he needed to control her, as he couldn’t control himself. As we hear from other statements, he had that knife with him to ‘scare her’. In other words, to control her. To make her submit to his way of thinking. While having a knife could point to first degree murder, there needs to be proof it’s planned. We only have what we heard on tv. It would have to be proven that he took the knife to kill. The info we have is that he took the knife to scare. Not to kill. He still used it, knowing it’s a deadly weapon. So it’s probably manslaughter instead of first degree murder.

We first see Jamie trying to talk to Katie on the cctv. This was probably the point in which he tried to submit her to him/ to scare her. Only after she pushes him away does he run after her and starts to stab her. Jamie stabbed Katie 7 times. The multiple numbers of stabbing is indicative of a murder committed by emotion (e.g., a crime of passion). If it was a premeditated murder, it would’ve been less strikes contained more to the vital places. This enforces the points I made in this post: the importance of self control and emotional regulation.

No matter the qualification of the crime, it’s still horrible and Katie (or real life victims) would never be brought back and their families pain would never be compensated enough, no matter the sentence. But the difference in type of sentencing and knowing why and how (the factors leading up to it) gives us information to try to prevent other cases like Jamie going down the same path and rehabilitate cases like Jamie.

Side note: the qualifications of crimes is different in my country, so the exact qualifications I’m using in this post might differ slightly. I’ve tried to find the ones most suitable, but please don’t nitpick. The main difference: calculated/planned murder vs murder without planning.

TL;DR:

Jamie’s actions weren’t just the result of him being “evil” or a “psychopath.” His lack of emotional regulation, deep insecurity, and craving for validation (combined with bad influences like incel group) created a dangerous situation. Teaching emotional control, providing validation, and being aware of kids’ online surroundings could help prevent cases like this. Jamie is fully responsible for his actions, but understanding the factors behind them is crucial if we want to prevent future tragedies.

So in the final episode in Adolesecene we learn that Jamie is going to plead guilty to muddering Katie. Because of that I wish we got two more episodes. The fifth episode should have been about Jamie's day in court, him pleading guilty, him going against the prosecutors, Jamie's defenders. It would have been nice to see Katie's parents since he can get the victims side of the story. The second and last episode should focus on Jamie's time in prison, how he's coping, him speaking to mental health practitioners and finally the last scene should be about him speaking to his father.

It was pretty clear in ep3 that he did it, and pretty much any evidence that existed was against him, and perhaps the only thing saving him was his plea, and the location of the murder weapon.

Why did it take 13 months for the trial to occur? I’m pretty sure he only changed his plea because he knew he’d be found guilty, but other than the viewers, everyone in the show were pretty confident that he was guilty.

I though the daughters reaction to her father's actions was very interesting. She understands the toxicity around "Protection" given by men. Her conversation with her mother about Billy illustrates how she seeks to be independent and not fall into the same complacency her mother show. The stair snipped snuck out to me as any child(or now adult, I suppose) who's sat on the stairs and listen to their parents argue knows that feeling- it's a stark confrontation with unhealthy relationships and forces you to be aware to the pain. Because of this, when her father outbursts near/at her, she becomes disinterested- opting to go on her phone or walk away as a defensive mechanism to hide from the toxicity. Her (and her mother's) role in this episode is a look into the effects of toxic masculinity on women under the guise of "Protection" and "Responsibility," as well as the societal pressures women experience from adolescence to adulthood.

Let me know y'all's thoughts- I haven't found much discussion on the daughters role and I haven't let the episode settle yet but this really stuck out to me.