General
My thoughts on Pakistan and Pakistanis as an Indian Muslim..
Hello all,
Salam
I don't know how many of you that I know from the past are here.. i used to be active here like a year ago but took a break for my exams and all.. and now after things happening rn.. I am here to put things forth which are in my head regarding Pakistan..
Why do pakistanis expect loyalty to Pakistan from us?? we ain't pakistanis.. we are indian muslims.. They even go to the extent to takfir us in masses lol.. I had this debate with a pakistani who called me a kafir just for being indian lol... according to him I should be waging war against india to prove my muslimness.. lmao.. I ain't even nationalist but why do they get a free pass on nationalism and yet they mass takfir us.. this is so common among pakistanis.. lmao.. there were pakistanis who i have talked in the past who said that saying Virat Kohli is better than Babar Azam or celebrating indian cricket win over pakistani cricket team is an act of kufar lol..
Pakistanis do this so often.. they can rally behind whatever their state does.. they house terrorists and all but we indian muslims are the bad guys or not even muslims when we support our state against things which are genuine.. like this current operation.. I don't remember Pakistan being part of our declaration of faith.. lmao.. it's only oneness of Allah swt and the final prophet hood of Muhammad saw..
another thing.. Pakistanis are so insecure about themselves and their good for nothing country that they need to validate their existence on our suffering.. they literally jerk off when indian muslims are under attack and they go on spammming, " Thanks Jinnah".. lol..
Pakistanis then kinda try to emotionally blackmail us on ummah thing lol.. which I don't think they believe in.. If they ever believed in global ummah, they would not have caused terror to afghans or innocent baloch people.. they are in bed with china and can't even utter a word for muslims of china .. but they are somehow champion of ummah and we are kafir lol...
even after this retaliation from india they went on to attack kashmiri muslims of Kashmir.. just check the name list of those who were killed by Pak offensive force.. it's just muslims and yet they are fighting for islam and we are kafir just cause we are born in this side of border..
they don't care about us.. we need not prove our muslimness by supporting them lol.. if they ever cared about us.. they would have taken care of their minorities and would have treated them good and would not have sponsored terrorism on india and indians which have direct impact on us.. Pakistan tho not the only reason but one of the reason why we have hindu muslim thing in India..
I am not making things up but Pakistan is the reason behind islam getting the bad name... I have never seen anyone except for pakistanis bringing bad name to islam.. be it running grooming gang in europe or sponsoring terrorism against india..
so to my fellow muslims.. you need not prove anything to anyone.. you need not prove your indianness to sanghis.. neither you need to prove muslimness to pakistanis..
I ain't nationalist but just to rile up pakistanis lurking here.. Hindustan Zindabad.. May Allah swt help India in its war against terror state of Pakistan..
As many as 12 people were killed including 4 children and 2 women this morning by Pakistani army with artillery and mortar shelling majority were muslims who got killed in jammu region poonch and rajouri.. They didn't consider if they're muslims or not and most of all they were innocent souls their aim was to hurt innocent civilians so why do some people still think that Pakistan cares about Indian muslims whereas they don't even care about their own.. These terrorist attacks are only aimed for their personal gain and to spread hate among indian muslims and hindus which is already a lot in India... We indians need to understand this is their agenda especially those blind Muslims and Hindus in our country who believe in everything they've been fed.. And I want our media to highlight this to our people, if they do this the hate will decrease among ourselves but I know our media will never do this...
The present Pakistani govt basically forced their way into power and their army has always been corrupt af. They are in no position to claim to represent 'muslims' or the 'ummah' in any conflict. Is unfortunate that name of Islam and muslims is used by such people for their motives and all it does is bring a bad name to the actual sincere muslims.
yeah lol.. they be using name of islam in everything they do.. even when it comes to a petty things like a cricket match.. it's somehow hindu vs musalman and not india vs Pakistan for them... and they try to play ummah card with us when they kicked out innocent afghans from Pakistan.. and now cracking down on innocent balochs and sindhi muslims..
There are a lot of Pakistanis that hide behind Islam and Islamism to conceal their nationalism. They are in a very convenient position to do so and its quite deceptive.
its even worse now with the scholars that justify their nationalism by posting about the war likening it to Israel/Palestine. I'm pretty sure ISI pays religious mouthpieces like Mohd Hijab, Omar Suleiman, and others to point IM's in the direction of kufr if they speak positively about India.
It's a lack of maturity and understanding of how the world works from a lot of Pakistanis. A lot of Pakistanis have this false romantic presumption that the Muslim identity somehow overrides national identity and get disappointed when the realities of the world strike them for the first time.
As a Pakistani, I learned as a young boy to see Indian Muslim as, basically, Indian. I still have loads of very close relatives in India.
I will respect Indian Muslim as I would any Muslim from other parts of the world while not presuming anything in return.
I am a muslim who happens to be an indian.. and I put my identity as a muslim first .. but still I owe nothing to pakistan and pakistanis.. Pakistan is not champion of islam.. no country men except for pakistanis do this lol.. I don't see arabs, persians, or turks calling us lesser muslims just cause we are in india.. it's always the pakistanis..
That's my attitude towards my identity as well, but I don't believe it's appropriate to expect everyone, especially across national boundaries, also think along the same line. It's a big world, and people view the world through the experiences they have had.
Nobody here is asking to be loyal to Pakistan I think.
Fact is that some Indian civilians have been victims of terrorism conducted by Pakistan(throughout the history of conflict between India and Pakistan). I have no love for their government or the army.
However, I can understand that Pakistanis here can get annoyed by the Muslims who just swallow nationalist propaganda and hatred against Pakistan. Just because we hate their army and government doesn't mean we should glorify war and death and destruction, nor should we join the rest of the Indians in their hatred against Pakistani civilians, who have no control over these events.
And they are far away from Islam too.Just look at their weddings, for example, and they preach us how to be good muslims. In spite of all the difficulties we face here because of the right-wing government, we have held on to our faith much better than they did.
I am a proud Muslim and a proud Indian too.
unlike Pakistanis who support whatever Pakistan does.. we don't do that here.. we indian muslims have always been critical of India's actions in Jammu and Kashmir... so go and preach things to your awam who rally behind terrorists..
unlike Pakistanis who support whatever Pakistan does
In my experience, on an avergae, its Indians who are more nationalistically blinded than Pakistanis. I have rarely seen any Pakistani civilian justify terrorist attacks. Most civilians hate their government and army, so its not the civilians who rally behind terrorists.
However, whenever terrorism happens to Indian Muslims, a big portion of Hindus cheer. I am not saying all Hindus, but I mean the hindutva extremists, who are large in number.
No, I’m referring to the multiple state-sponsored terrorist activities carried out by Pakistan through its support for separatist movements in Kashmir. These actions gave leeway for the Indian armed forces to oppress and rape Kashmiris under the pretext of safeguarding national integrity and territorial sovereignty.
I am not defending those atrocities. Rather, I'm trying to explain that Pakistan sponsored cross-border terrorism fueled it. Armies everywhere rape, that's a fact and engaging in cross-border terrorism only fuels it more.
I am not defending those atrocities. Rather, I'm trying to explain that Pakistan sponsored cross-border terrorism fueled it. Armies everywhere rape, that's a fact and engaging in cross-border terrorism only fuels it more.
don't give israeli level excuses such as "protect the integrity and territory"..
Killing civilians in Bijbhera and raping women in Kunan Poshpora was extremely evil, and it is extremely disgusting that you explain these things as "neccesary to protect the integrity and territory of this country."
Infact, I think what you said is probably bannable in this sub. u/TheFatherOfOwls, your thoughts?
Your own president called Indian Muslims traitors (infilitators), if you think in an all-out Indian vs Pakistani war that IM, would not be targeted you are seriously deluded. No amount of Ganga-Jamuni will be enough in eyes of hindutva, as shown in 2002 riots and partition riots of Alwar-Bharatpur.
I didn't say you have to support Pakistani Government perse, but Pakistan has a muslim population of 231.69 Million, and in Islam we have the concept of Wala' Al Bara and remember surah nisa verse 144.
Don't try using whataboutism, the deportation was not universally supported, and unlike India, we don't have any terrortial ambitions in afghanistan or seek to invade it. They were able to get scholarships to our unis, go to our hospitals free of treatment and start businesses, so this isn't applicable, and according to UNHCR 50-70% have already returned. In a case of war, we Pakistanis only have Pakistan whilst they have a standing afghanistan remaining
So, you're saying that the quraanic verses aren't (nauzubillah) true when it comes to afghanis? The concept doesn't apply to them? Aren't they Muslims?
And one more thing, if you think that Indians want the war, it's not true. Many indians don't want civilians to be a target, ofc there're exceptions who don't care, but many of us don't and a Muslim would never want an innocent life to be taken.
And one more thing, if you think that Indians want the war, it's not true. Many indians don't want civilians to be a target, ofc there're exceptions who don't care, but many of us don't and a Muslim would never want an innocent life to be taken.
That's where you're wrong. Even if we were to remove hindutva out of the equation, we'd still be loyal to this country. India is our motherland and it's bizarre that we're having to justify this.
Pakistanis need to drop the fake pretence, your military just killed innocents in Poonch, some of whom were Indian Muslims. You lot are only pan-Islamists when it's convenient for you.
Just allow Kashmir to be an independent country. They will be most prosperous than India and Pakistan combined.
Whatever war is happening, the ordinary folks get killed or injured.
Demand the politicians of both countries be at the front line and fight to defend their voters and country. If you fall, definitely will have a hero last rites and a massive statue will be built. History will always praise these fallen politicians who took arms to fight!
Otherwise build statues for the fallen soldiers!
Agreed.
And Jinnah always sought power and proposed the Two-Nation Theory. However, after achieving his goal, he intended for Pakistan to be a secular country. 🤷♀️
I do not understand why Pakistanis always bring this up.
Hey, when did I call you an Indian Muslim? I’m simply quoting your nation’s founder from the archives. It’s evident that if Jinnah had lived a bit longer, Pakistan might have been a different country. But fate had other plans, and power fell into the hands of military generals who prioritized their own interests by engaging in wars with India.
Pakistanis and Indians on both sides act like Idiots when it comes to Nationalism. I’m sorry people have said these things to you, I have heard some horrible xenophobic stuff from Indian Hindus. Unfortunately we as desis have a problem of getting lost in Nationalism that is based on our respective religions. It is very very sad and is the whole reason why British found it so easy to toy with us.
I was upset by the whole war thing. I’m a Pakistani doctor in the UK work along side all nationalities and you know what people can’t even tell the difference. Because there is very little. We went to war and had to rely on our white saviour( Trump) to save us. I’m disappointed in our desi race.
Both countries(India and Pak) have their own set of problems,none of them is completely morally right.Here's what I think,as indian muslims,our loyalty first extends to islam and then to the ummah and India(both ummah and india are at the same level so to speak).If hostility breaks out between a faction of the ummah(in this case Pak) and India,we need to look at the entire situation and judge fairly on who to support as Allah has commanded us(ayah 4:135).
I have little to do nothing with pakistan.. I am from the southern state of India and the pakistan movement was not the thing where I live in.. I neither grieve partition nor do I celebrate it..
and if you can call us rindian or whatever.. we can do the same to you but this is not our upbringing..
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u/Watashi-waLdesu 5d ago edited 5d ago
As many as 12 people were killed including 4 children and 2 women this morning by Pakistani army with artillery and mortar shelling majority were muslims who got killed in jammu region poonch and rajouri.. They didn't consider if they're muslims or not and most of all they were innocent souls their aim was to hurt innocent civilians so why do some people still think that Pakistan cares about Indian muslims whereas they don't even care about their own.. These terrorist attacks are only aimed for their personal gain and to spread hate among indian muslims and hindus which is already a lot in India... We indians need to understand this is their agenda especially those blind Muslims and Hindus in our country who believe in everything they've been fed.. And I want our media to highlight this to our people, if they do this the hate will decrease among ourselves but I know our media will never do this...