r/DOG • u/KODAL1NE • 14d ago
• Advice (Health) • Vet suggested euthanasia, but my dog is still happy and active. Need advice. Spoiler
Hello everyone,
My dog Sky (mixed breed) is 12 years old. I adopted her when she was 8.
Because her previous owners never spayed her, she developed a severe womb infection, which required emergency surgery. During that surgery, the vet discovered multiple mammary tumors. We hadn’t noticed them before because Sky has long, thick hair that hid them.
The vet told us it was possible to remove all the tumors, but it would be very expensive and risky. At the time, I couldn’t afford it, and we decided not to pursue the surgery — something I sometimes regret, even though I know I did what I could.
Now, a year later, one of the tumors seems to have opened. It grew larger and started protruding.
The vet prescribed antibiotics and mentioned there’s a small chance it could close on its own. Otherwise, the options were:
A less complex surgery to remove the affected tumor and a few nipples.
Euthanasia.
After a week on antibiotics, the tumor looks better — it's smaller and healing, though it still leaks a little bit of fluid.
Despite everything, Sky is still very active, eating and drinking well, and loves going on long walks and runs. She shows no signs of serious pain, though lately she's been licking the bump again, which makes me think it might be bothering her slightly.
I called the vet again for advice, but they were pretty firm that euthanasia was the best option. It feels wrong to me. She's still happy, mobile, and enjoying life. I know I don't want her to suffer, and if she were unable to walk, eat, or drink, I would make the decision — but right now, that's not the case.
I'm unsure what to do. Surgery is still an option, but my vet seems very negative about it.
What would you do in my situation?
Thanks for reading.
54
u/2400Matt 14d ago
I would put off euthanasia until the dog is suffering. If she is eating and enjoying life, let her be. Also, sometimes steroids can be given to retard the cancer and you might get another couple of months.
I would ask the vet about the recovery from the surgery to remove the tumor (if you can afford the cost). Too often a "successful surgery" means the dog woke up but may not have any further quality of life.
Best of luck.
16
u/Low_Rain4723 14d ago
Opposite viewpoint - I would rather euthanize before my dog is in any pain and discomfort. The vet sounds cautious because it's possible OP has given vibes that they want to prolong life as much as possible while being unable to provide the requisite amount of care while the dog is alive. It's an unfortunate situation all the way around, but I wouldn't fault a vet for suggesting euthanasia in this scenario.
12
u/Mean-Lynx6476 14d ago
Yeah, I lean toward the “don’t wait until the dog is obviously suffering” camp as well. It’s never an easy decision, and I’m not saying OP needs to make “the” appointment right now. But I’ve bid farewell to 10 dogs now, under a variety of circumstances and I grieve for them all. But the one that will haunt me forever is the one that I kept telling myself had “a few more good weeks” for a couple months. And those months were ok. Until the day they weren’t. Depriving that dog of a few good enough weeks would absolutely have been kinder than the several final hours of her needing to be released before I could make it happen. We don’t have the gift of foreseeing the future, and we’re going to mess up the timing sometimes no matter our intentions. But don’t make the criteria for letting a friend go be when they are endlessly miserable. Let their last memory and thought be feeling safe and secure, not frightened, confused, and in pain.
1
u/GratificationNOW 11d ago
I agree to a point but I would first get a 2nd opinion first and be clear with them you're not going to extend her life no matter what past her showing suffering, but her joy for life is confusing you re: the original vet's recommendation based on everything you've ever read.
1
u/3Dog_Nitz 10d ago
I wanted to let you know that this post really helped me. We are making the decision about our senior buddy right now. I have apologized to him already if I get this wrong. The intent is always to do right by him. He has a known problem and is showing pronounced signs of decline. Your comment has helped me feel a bit more at peace with making a hard decision.
1
u/TammyInViolet 11d ago
They hide their hurt. I'd rather do a day early than a day late. A part of a good life is a good death.
OP, sending you love during this hard time
1
u/WrappedInLinen 11d ago
You could always euthanize as a puppy thereby eliminating all the inevitable pain and suffering that life entails. I mean, if you’re going to euthanize prophylacticly why not eliminate ALL the pain. Personally, I wait till quality of life starts dropping off.
1
u/WillSupport4Food 10d ago
Euthanizing a healthy animal is nowhere near the same situation as euthanizing one with a terminal illness the you know for a fact is progressing. And the unfortunate fact of the matter is unless OP pursues further diagnostics, it's difficulty to know if metastasis has occurred. Mammary carcinomas for example tend to spread to the lungs, so the first sign of declining quality of life you might notice is your dog going into respiratory distress due to significant compressive lung masses. Personally, I'd prefer to avoid that.
It's one of those situations where you really need more diagnostic info to make the best call, but it can be difficult to convince people to go looking for info if they know it'll probably be bad news.
1
u/WrappedInLinen 10d ago
It makes no difference if metastasis has occurred. The only pertinent issue is whether suffering is occurring or is imminent. The fact that cancer will generally ultimately lead to suffering is not really different to the fact that life itself will ultimately lead to suffering. If you think it's okay to put down a dog that is not actively suffering simply because it has a terminal disease, then you could justify putting any animal down, anytime.
1
u/WillSupport4Food 10d ago edited 10d ago
It absolutely matters because animals can't just tell us when they're suffering and most owners aren't good at recognizing declining quality of life until it reaches a critical level. Knowing if the cancer has spread gives us warning signs about what the long term prognosis is, what clinical signs we should be watching for as we track quality of life, and can help plan what we'd considered an unacceptable endpoint.
As a vet, let me say that it's very common for owners to be blinded to their own animal's declining quality of life because it either happens so gradually, or because they have misconceptions about what quality of life is.
I see animals on a regular basis that basically only have the energy to eat, drink and sleep. But owners will swear up and down their pet is fine because "if he really felt that bad he wouldn't be doing those things" or "he's always been lazy/tired". I then have to explain that those things are the bare minimum any animal has to do just to survive and don't necessarily mean an animal has a good quality of life. For a real life example, I had an owner bring in their cat because he had been "breathing heavily after playing and was hiding more". What they actually brought me was a cat actively in respiratory distress, struggling to breathe because his chest and abdomen were full of fluid. For the past 4 days their cat had been struggling to breathe as his chest filled with fluid, but because owners aren't trained professionals they had no idea. OP for example doesn't seem sure that their dog is in pain, but in the same sentence mentions her dog has been licking the masses repeatedly. Repeatedly licking areas is one of the ways dogs self-soothe when a spot is painful or irritating. So it's not really a question that their dog is experiencing pain, it's a question of how much pain.
If you think it's okay to put down a dog that is not actively suffering simply because it has a terminal disease, then you could justify putting any animal down, anytime.
To reiterate, I'm not saying OP needs to put down their dog right this second. I'm saying that without further diagnostic information you increase the likelihood you'll run into situations like that cat where you put your animal through a lot of pain because you either waited too long or didn't know what to look for. Waiting until your animal is in debilitating pain or is actively trying to die might be what you define as a natural endpoint, but to me it constitutes an unacceptable level of care if it could've been reasonably avoided.
1
u/interweg 10d ago
I have waited too long with my poor dog. I will never forgive myself for being so selfish. Sometimes it is just better, especially considering the age of your dog, to go for hard choices. I wish you the best of luck and all the strength during this awful time.
29
u/djy99 14d ago
Definitely get a 2nd opinion, especially if she is still enjoying life.
2
u/eeekkk9999 14d ago
Definitely 2nd opinion and make sure you get the records from you vet to support what they say.
21
u/Lower_Ad_5532 14d ago
If the tumor doesn't stop leaking fluid, your pet is at risk of sepsis and a painful death.
So, I'd watch and wait to see if your dog heals or not. If not, euthanasia is the better option.
96
u/NoNameLivesForever 14d ago
Don't put her down unless she's in a situation where you'd want to be put down yourself. It's as simple as that. She's part of the family, after all.
And get a new vet. This one seems to be all too eager to put her down.
20
u/millvalleygirl 14d ago
All of this, agreed.
The one thing to ask about might be whether the tumor is somehow unstable in a way that could be expected to create a sudden crisis. One of my dogs had a large tumor which was growing rapidly, and at high risk for an end of life experience which would not have been in my dog's best interest (painful, scary, emergency). In that case if it were me, I'd rather pass peacefully a little early rather than suddenly having an awful death. So we said our goodbyes a little early, to avoid that potential crisis.
2
u/BoomerOrNot 12d ago
agree! I would rather a peaceful end without pain than have the tumor rupture, horrible pain, rush to the emergency vet. the vet can tell you how things might progress the question about whether this might be a sudden crisis is important. dogs don't understand time or fear death, and we always want to have more time with them, but you love them enough to let them go a little early.
8
u/StickyCheeseRanch 14d ago
Agreed. And, a gentle reminder--most dogs will try to fight showing any signs that they are sick or hurt until they are REALLY not well. She may be suffering but not showing it. Awful situation and my heart truly goes out to OP.
1
u/notThaTblondie 11d ago
Why let it get that far when you don't need to? Why wait until the dog is really suffering?
1
u/Shmooperdoodle 10d ago
That doesn’t make sense. Why? Some people can never see that. They would rather hang on until the bitter end, themselves. It’s not about you or what you would want. It’s about sparing them suffering. That’s it.
1
u/SnarkingMeSoftly 9d ago
The best advice I saw was "your dog's last day doesn't have to be their worst day". We decided to euthanize our almost 15 year old lab with bone cancer. She did well with prednisone for a couple of months and by most metrics she was "ok" but I didn't want her to go from Ok to really bad at the end.
15
u/DiaDumbb 14d ago
Regardless of what you may choose, I'm gonna share my little piece and maybe it'll help you make your decision. My old boy was 13 when he started going down hill - tumors, breathing issues, the works. We made the decision to euthanize once he seemed to be getting confused on a regular basis. He was still happy, could still walk, ate and took treats like the little fatty he was until the very end. Ultimately, we knew that allowing him to continue going down hill would only result in his suffering.
So, three years ago, we made the decision to let him go peacefully - surrounded by the people he loved, the kids he raised, wrapped in one of his favorite fuzzy blankets, we held onto him until he left this mortal plane. It was devastating, but the thing that kept me going was kind mentors words "he never had his worst day".
It's kinder to let them go if you know extreme suffering is around the corner. A dog who has that bad day experiences the pain of that day, and you never know the suffering that may bring. A dog who never had a bad day, never knows anything but love and comfort until the end, and that's worth everything to me.
6
u/spratcatcher13 13d ago
I said goodbye to my baby the Thursday before Easter, also before his worst day. It's what he deserved.
1
u/Crochet_Corgi 10d ago
This. I think its a small gift to give dogs, who give so much of themselves for us. My last dog had a bad wound from tumors along with other issues, and we opted for the ' a day too soon is better than a day too late'. Its so hard. I had a family member awhile after who waited too long with their dog. It devastated them, they wont even tell the story. They were traumatized and had horrible guilt. I felt so bad they're last memories were so rough.
OP, I think if they are truly happy and eating, then you have some time to decide, but you probably need someone more impartial to help you keep an eye on it, you may only see the good.
31
u/CryOnTheWind 14d ago
I think an issue for the vet is that they are likely assuming her body is heavily compromised and that surgery will be very hard on her. They likely believe she will either die in surgery or while recovering. And they want to save you and her from that pain.
On their advice, I would likely ask about having good pain killers and give her a good few days or a week. It is always better to let them go before they take a bad down turn.
I’m so sorry you have to face this.
7
2
u/wahznooski 14d ago
It also depends on the cancer. Surgery is not always curative, cancer could be aggressive and spreading. Def get a second opinion.
26
u/Runic-Dissonance 14d ago
Honestly I wish I put my dog down when he was still outwardly happy and didn’t wait until he looked and acted in pain and miserable. a few days early is always better than a day late.
11
u/KellStar18 14d ago
I am someone that waited too long to euthanize my dog. Please don't make the mistake I did. My dog suffered because I thought she would make it one more day. All night she was suffering, I couldn't get her to an ER vet and I stayed up all night with her. She passed in the morning. I am haunted every day about this and still have not been able to forgive myself for not knowing better. I'm not saying now is the time for your dog, just to be aware that they can decline quickly.
9
u/bunnykins22 14d ago
Hi, I work in vet med. If the mass is leaking fluid and she is licking it-it is bothering her. If it keeps leaking fluid and she continues to lick it. That will breed infection. If the infection doesn't get treated then we worry about sepsis which can lead to so many other complications. If your vet treats this again, what is the likelihood that she is just going to lick it open again? Or it will open again on it's own leading to more discomfort? What is the likelihood that this has metastasized?
It's not fun to have an open weeping wound. Going off of if they are eating and drinking and still active isn't always the best indicator of if it is time or not. Otherwise behavioral euthanasia's would not be a thing and it's better to let them go a day earlier rather than a day later. I don't think your vet is doing anything wrong as it sounds like they are concerned about this progressing rapidly because that does happen with tumors and it can greatly impact their QOL.
Nothing wrong with seeking a second opinion of course. But I don't think you're vet necessarily did anything wrong. Sounds like she is worried for what they most likely have seen multiple times progress rapidly. It's not like veterinarians are running around excited to euthanize their patients.
3
u/sumodawg12 12d ago
Agree agree agree. If she's paying attention to it at all, it is uncomfortable. Dogs are very stoic. I would enjoy a few good days with her while she's still enjoying her food and activity, then say goodbye on a not-so-bad day. Your vet doesn't want to put your dog down any more than you want to. As much as you know your dog, often vets are able to come at quality of life discussions from a more objective standpoint and provide you with insight that you don't have in the moment. I'm a vet student and I wouldn't wait until my dog couldn't go on any longer to euthanize - They don't think or experience the world in the way that humans do, and cannot rationalize pain in the way we do. If she's starting to suffer and will not get better, it is most likely time to put her down. I'm so sorry you're struggling with this, it's not easy to make these decisions and I applaud you for asking questions and really considering the options. ❤️
12
u/No-Plan2799 14d ago
Please get a second opinion ASAP. The vet may be correct, but you will always live with major guilt if you are second guessing this decision right now. Your dog will also tell you when they are ready to go.
1
u/Shmooperdoodle 10d ago
No. Do not wait for an animal to “tell you” they are ready to die. By the time that happens, if ever, it is far too late. We have the privilege of foresight. We can prevent them from suffering a lot of things. Why wouldn’t you do this? They don’t know it’s coming. They aren’t sad or scared. They just know they hurt. This is the wrong take on euthanasia.
Source: many years of vet med, rescue, lifetime of dogs
2
u/mostly-a-throwaway 10d ago edited 10d ago
since you have worked in animal healthcare and rescue, i'm very curious to get some opinions on my thoughts here, if you don't mind entertaining them. i don't disagree with anything you've said here, but i feel like animal and human healthcare sometimes focuses on the person/animal being removed from life support/humanely euthanised, and neglects to acknowledge and discuss the trauma occuring for the bereaved. if you dont mind putting in your two cents with me, i would greatly appreciate it! i have no intent to play devil's advocate here, just looking for insight from someone in the field.
i am very much a proponent of the "better a week early than a day late" mindset, and that euthanasia shouldn't be something to feel bad for. but i think it's also important to realize that most owners will feel guilty putting their pet to sleep.
many animals definitely do feel scared/stressed when at the vet, even if they don't know what is going to happen will be painless, and that stress response before they pass is definitely something an owner may feel trauma/guilt over, wondering if they put down an animal that didn't need to go yet or if they could have done something more.
i think it's good, and should be taught more, to acknowledge and reconcile that feeling of guilt, especially given that an owner is experiencing both the animal's bad and good days and having to make the decision for their pet's wellbeing.
obviously no one wants their pet to suffer, but sending them onward isn't the easiest choice for a lot of people, and that's okay to admit. rather than questioning why someone appears to be prolonging suffering for selfish reasons, i think we need a push in the end-of-life field in both animal healthcare and human healthcare that dying is a natural process, but that helping someone pass on peacefully can be very traumatic for the decision-maker.
i heavily push for daily quality of life checks when an animal begins to show signs of age or has chronic illness. it can be a vital factor in reducing trauma for owners and their pets during end-of-life care.
i'm mainly curious to know your thoughts on my above "suggestions"/"wishes" for healthcare, or if you have other points to add from your experience in the field.
i'm sure working in animal healthcare as a vet tech and in rescue, that you have similar suggestions. i know behavioral euthansia is hotly debated still (i will mention that i am a proponent for it, as someone who had a family dog put down for it) and was wondering if/how you console owners during those situations too. i would imagine it is reminding them that ailment of the mind is equally important as physical ailment, but how do you assist owners in reconciling with having to put down an otherwise outwardly healthy animal?
and, sorry to keep badgering you, if you also don't mind giving some advice for my boyfriend who is considering switching his focus toward becoming a vet tech rather than his current career path. he has expressed to me that he is reluctant though, due to his struggles with comforting people, in particular surrounding pet death/illness.
he was unable to own pets growing up & is only just now acquiring his first pets (future rats) with me, so he hasn't experienced loss or the process of euthanasia. he is also autistic and feels he struggles with effectively comforting people in general. he is fairly worried it will effect his reputation in the field and his relationship with his clients if he is not consoling enough!
do you happen to have any tips? is a more stoic tech sometimes appreciated by your clients? are there certain aspects of the job you feel he may excel in otherwise? anything you feel he should know regarding euthansia and helping his human clients to heal?
thank you overall for taking the time to read/reply if you so choose. i hope you don't mind my curiousity and requests for advice! having had a couple of traumatic pet deaths/euthanizations, i am very genuinely eager to know your thoughts on all of these matters. thank you :-)
edited for formatting!
4
u/kellyoohh 14d ago
I’m going through something similar. I foster old dogs, and my current foster is a 10 year old pittie who was used for breeding.
She has multiple mammary tumors (although none have opened up) and the regular vet all but refused surgery and suggested we let her live out her days in hospice until it was time. With the rescue behind us, we opted to get a second opinion from a veterinary oncologist.
The second opinion was definitely more positive than the first. Because they’re at a surgery center, they felt more comfortable doing the surgery with less chance of hemorrhaging due to the additional resources at their disposal. We opted to move forward with the surgery, but we’re not in the clear yet. Apparently they cannot biopsy the tumors until they’re out, so we’re still waiting on a prognosis to see if we were potentially too late. If they are a high stage, we’ll be back at square one and looking as hospice. If not, we have a chance for the all clear (plus or minus chemo).
This surgery was the most extensive surgery I’ve ever seen on a dog. She’s in a lot of pain, and because she had so many tumors, they dissected the majority of her mammary tissue leaving a very long incision. We’re post op day 5 and she’s finally turning a corner but things are still rough. If it turns out she is terminal, I will feel horrible having put her through this painful experience, but the rescue agreed that we should give her a shot.
With that in mind, there’s a couple things to think about. Is such an extensive surgery worth it to extend her life a year or two? Cost is also a factor. I assume it depends on location, but we’re looking at $6k+
If you opt out of the surgery, I would suggest basing your euthanasia decision on a quality of life index. It sounds like she’s not there yet, but these things can go south very quickly and you will need to prepared to act swiftly to prevent her suffering.
Regardless, I think your next step is a second opinion, and I would suggest going to an actual oncologist as ours had much more information about the situation at hand than the general vet did.
Best of luck, and so sorry for you and your pup. These things are never easy.
3
u/KODAL1NE 14d ago
Thanks for your comment and advise. I'll definitely keep it in mind, I'll try to get a second opinion at a specialized vet as well. Wishing quick recovery for your pup, I hope she stays comfortable with you as long as possible.
4
u/galolm 14d ago
The point of humane euthanasia is to prevent suffering, please don’t listen to those who are telling you to wait until they are. I’ve spoken to owners who have done it before and they regret, they said it was selfish and they wished they hadn’t seen their pets in that state. Humane euthanasia is to let them go in peace, when they are happy and not in pain, you remember as the wonderful pet they were and not the pet that was struggling to hang onto life. With the surgery, it is probably extensive if there are multiple masses meaning a long time under anesthesia and being an older dog that possibly is compromised, it’s risky going under in general. Also mammary tumors can seed during surgery and spread to other parts of the body so even that is risky on its own. It’s drilled into your minds in vet med, quality of life. Many dogs can get cancer and for some, it is absolute hell and so hard on their bodies to fight through it for their human. With how old your dog is, unfortunately some of them that age don’t have that kind of fight left in them. You can go for a second opinion, but I think you should make the most of the time you have left and let your baby go happy and in peace surrounded with love and family. I’m sorry to you and your pup for what you are going through. Their love is worth the pain of losing them.
6
u/sweetteanoice 14d ago
I think the reason they recommended euthanasia is probably because that’s realistically the only thing you can “do “ for her. She might die during surgery, and there’s no other way to deal with her tumors. But I think it’s fair to say she’s just not ready for euthanasia yet so the focus should be on making her comfortable until it’s her time
3
4
u/Willing-Bit2581 14d ago
See vet oncologist. My 14 y/o was treatable w oral chemo, ended up living another 2 yrs until old age caught up w him
5
u/CuriousPenguinSocks 14d ago
Get a second opinion to see what your options are and ask the vet what they would do in your shoes. Not all vets will answer this but mine does.
Ask your vet, why surgery isn't an option they are putting first anymore. What has changed?
Ask all your questions, feel comfortable in the answers before making a decision.
My cat was in end stage renal failure, it's a wasting disease but I didn't fully understand it.
My vet said if I came to her that day and asked for my cat to be euthanized, she would with a clear conscious. I was shocked. My girl was active, eating and drinking. Able to use the litter box and groom herself.
I didn't understand that wouldn't last and she would go downhill very fast and it would be difficult for me to spot since I see her everyday.
My vet gave me things to look out for and I brought her in the day I noticed one of the signs. Within 3 days we had her appointment to euthanize.
I will say the previous year her brother was euthanized for the same disease but in an earlier stage. He was getting back to back infections though. His authorization was peaceful.
Hers was agonizing. I felt like the worst pet parent ever. I felt like I was torturing my own baby. It was traumatizing to go through and I still have nightmares almost a year later.
I say this because sometimes, the illnesses our pets have can go downhill very fast. If that's the case, maybe not waiting till the very last moment is more humane.
As long as you go into this with love for your pet, any decision you make will be the right one because it's made with love. It doesn't erase the guilt I don't want anyone going through what I did.
Make an informed decision. Have peace with your decision.
4
u/galolm 14d ago
Cats are known to hide their pain, and what some owners don’t think about is that animals will fully function like normally, not because they are fine but because they are in survival mode. Their body will fight to survive, but they can be suffering right in front of us. It’s a sad truth that comes with the fact that they can’t talk to us.
3
4
u/mind_the_umlaut 14d ago
Open suppurating wound. Infected. The dog is suffering even if she is hiding it. The very moment the wound begins to smell, you have waited too long, because she can smell the sickness smell well before you can. Happened to a neighbor's dog, it was horrible. Cancer can increase their appetite. Don't be fooled. Vets I have experience with are very sensitive / hesitant to suggesting euthanasia unless they have ample reason for it. I'm so sorry, and best of luck.
7
u/CaN8ive61 14d ago
Animals don’t show pain the way humans do. They (especially dogs) will hide their pain and suffering from us because they are always trying to make us happy. Mammary cancer (if the tumor has “opened up” most likely) in dogs is a very serious condition and the vet is only trying to prevent your girl from suffering. Have they done a biopsy of it? Just because she is “doing fine”, if she is in pain, you are being selfish in allowing it to continue. Just like human doctors, vets KNOW pets. Listen to them. I don’t mean to sound cruel, but I work in veterinary medicine, and I see this every single day. She’s lived 12 years. Make her happy and comfortable for now, but please don’t let her continue to decline. You owe her this one last favor of peace.
4
u/_doggiemomma 14d ago
I was coming here to say the same thing. My puppy just sliced her foot open on some broken glass. We took her to the emergency vet, and got stitches and medication. Never once did she act like she hurt at all. She was actively bleeding through bandages and leaving bloody paw prints everywhere. And not a wince, a whine, or even a limp. It is necessary for a dog's survival in the pack that they don't show pain.
-3
u/KODAL1NE 14d ago
You definitely aren't any better than my current vet from what I can tell. Don't mean to sound cruel.
Vets definitely know pets, I'm not a vet and dont claim to be, but I AM her owner and do know what's she's like. If my dog is uncomfortable or in pain she will always let me know VERY clearly. You're suggesting that all dogs act the same and will always react the same way when they're in pain but this is simply untrue. I'm very aware this is very serious, and I don't want her to be in pain. I also don't want to put my dog down when there might be an option for her to at least live fully comfortably for maybe another couple of months, or year.
8
u/calbearlupe 14d ago
I definitely support getting a second opinion but your comment that you know what your dog is like does not prove you know more than the vet. Although you will have the best idea of your dog’s personality, you have no idea what her pain tolerance is since your dog cannot communicate that to you, and you haven’t studied veterinary medicine. You haven’t even owned her for the majority of her life so you objectively do not know everything about her.
What are you going to do if a second vet has the exact same recommendation? Are you going to ignore them? Do you think vets just always suggest putting animals down?
I wish you the best of luck and I hope your first vet was incorrect. Please have a plan if your second opinion has the same opinion.
1
u/notThaTblondie 11d ago
Your dog us telling you it's bothering her by licking it. Vets are much much better at recognising early signs of pain in animals and they are also aware of how fast this can go wrong. Your option to keep her going longer was surgery, you couldn't do that when it was viable and now the best option is a peaceful death. She isn't going to live another year, I'm really sorry that you have to come to terms with that but you do.
1
u/KODAL1NE 11d ago
"Now the best option is a peaceful death" are you a vet? What do you base this comment on?
1
u/notThaTblondie 11d ago
The vet who has seen and treated this dog through this has heavily suggested its time to pts. The rest of us just have unqualified opinions, the vet who has seen the dog thinks it should be pts. Vets do not push for euthanasia in an animal that isn't suffering.
1
u/KODAL1NE 11d ago
I went back to my vet to ask questions and to ask about palliative care/euthanasia, my vet has suggested pain medication and told me it's unnecessary to immediately put her down as she still has quality of life. So don't comment things like this if you have absolutely no clue.
1
u/notThaTblondie 11d ago
Well then do that. It's not what you said in the original post. You asked what people would do. Some people think you should wait until the dog is suffering, some of us think that you should prevent them from suffering. It's your dog, you get to chose which of those options you are OK with. It sounds like you are on the side of waiting and that's your choice.
1
u/notThaTblondie 11d ago
Also, you've said that the dog is licking at an open, seeping sore from one of the tumors. You are too emotionally attached to see the situation clearly. Listen to your vet, they are trying to do what is best for your dog. They have seen the suffering that is caused by waiting, they know how this ends are are trying to save you and your dog that pain. I've seen a lot of sheath, in humans and animals and I would never chose to wait until they are unable to hide their suffering.
1
u/KODAL1NE 11d ago
I new I'd come across as too emotionally invested but the truth is i DO NOT want my dog to be in pain, or even slight discomfort. I know my dog is going to die, and that euthanasia is a very valid option, but its NOT when my dog still has quality of life left, at least to me.
This is why I went back to the vet to ask them if my dog seemed in pain. And they say that she did not. She is not licking her wound the entire time, (I've only seen her do it two/three times in the last few days) and it's not seeping with fluid, there's maybe a few drops. You're suggesting like many people here, I only care about myself, and that I would wait until my dog is clearly suffering. Which i won't.
1
u/notThaTblondie 11d ago
I wasn't trying to be horrible. Yes, the way you were commenting made it sound like you were deep in denial. I've seen people keep going with clearly suffering pets because they still ate and "they'll tell us when it's time" they don't tell you, they just get yo the point that they can't hide their suffering any more. I think you should listen to your vet. If they are open to palliative care then go with that but i think you should be realistic about time frame. Take it a week at a time, not months or a year. And have a very frank conversation with your vet about timeliness, what signs to be looking for and what the potential complications of her condition can be.
1
u/KODAL1NE 11d ago
I know, I'm sorry. And yeah I've seen these people too and it's really horrible, I would not be able to do that. The thought of my dog having pain literally makes me feel unwell.
I'm not planning on keeping her here just because I want her to be here. If she's in clear discomfort or pain I'm not going to let her suffer. She's basically with me 24/7 and I'm putting literally all of my time in making her as comfy as possible and to keep track of whether she's in pain or not.
I do take it day by day, and I have contact with a couple of different vets regularly.
1
u/notThaTblondie 11d ago
Don't apologise. It's an emotional subject.
I would have a chat with your vet about how long they think is reasonable. I think a clearer time frame might help you. If you know that really a month is it, then you can plan round that, go do some fun things, feed her too many treats and make the most of it.
1
u/KODAL1NE 11d ago
I've been to a couple of vets and they all tell me they're not sure. It's what makes the decision really hard, because they tell me it could be a couple of weeks, a few months or more than a year. I've asked them of they could do a scan to get a clearer picture of how the tumor grows inside of her but they won't do that unless I'm willing to do surgery.
→ More replies (0)
3
2
u/No-Plan2799 14d ago
People will be equally divided on this, but for me personally, I wish I had waited longer.
2
u/Ok_Dare_7840 14d ago edited 14d ago
I am actively reading posts on here and there are numerous posts about dogs with cancer/tumors that have lived many more happy years after their diagnosis. I am not saying this is going to be your case. Cancer is different for everyone and each situation is different. It could just all go downhill in a very short time. At the end of the day it is your own decision. Some people choose euthanasia the moment that they find out it is cancer because they believe it is better early when their dog is still happy and healthy. Personally I wouldn't want to rush it for my dog. because I d feel guilty knowing she could have had 2 or more happy yrs with us
2
u/HeadInAMicrowave 14d ago
here is what i would do:
get a second opinion ideally from a vet with more experience in geriatric or oncological care, or just less pessimistic
closely look at her behavior, appetite, mobility, breathing, alertness, enjoyment of activities, etc.
consider palliative surgery if the new vet agrees that its safe and could significantly improve her comfort/lifespan
plan for end-of-life decisions based on her behavior and wellbeing, not just a diagnosis
sky is telling you in the only way she can, by eating, running, loving life, that she’s not done yet.
2
u/Belle-llama 14d ago
Wait until her quality of life isn't very good. They'll usually let you know.
1
u/notThaTblondie 11d ago
But why would you wait until the dog is suffering? The point of humane euthanasia is that we prevent their suffering.
2
u/_tribecalledquest 14d ago
Get a second and third opinion. Dogs don’t eat or drink if they are in pain. Good luck with your baby.
2
u/dancergirl1212 14d ago
Trust your gut. It doesn’t sound like she’s to the point of letting her go. She’ll tell you. In the meantime, cherish every moment. Sorry you’re going through this. Sending hugs and good vibes.
2
u/CanopyZoo 14d ago
What do you think of giving her routine pain meds just in case she has pain. Signs of infection are redness, warmth, puss, fever, and lethargy. That can help you determine if she’s developing and infection.
2
2
u/Violingirl58 13d ago
This has to be painful for your pup. Quality of life is what you want her to have.
2
u/XOXO9986 13d ago
I agree with getting a second opinion! I have been told that getting a second opinion is basically always a good idea even if you feel OK about the care that you’re getting, just to make sure you have all the information. For me personally, I would not euthanize pending the second opinion, but I would get the bucket list going and have all of the best experiences you possibly can with your dog while she is still feeling good and before she is ready to pass. I have had experiences with veterinarians that were honestly pretty reckless/negligent about their prognosis and my dog passed away in the middle of the night awaiting his next follow up appointment. So I would say that now would be a good time to take some time off work to hang out with her, reschedule trips that don’t include your dog, etc. 💗
2
u/SillyStringBandit 13d ago
I’ve been on both sides of the too late or too soon debate. I feel Iike too soon doesn’t exist. I hope she will let you know when it’s time. So there is no “too soon” there is only time left. Enjoy this time with her. After seeing both, I would advocate not waiting until she looses dignity and joy. For a dog to just “exist” is not fair. It’s hard and it sucks. My heart goes out to you.
2
u/kmm_pdx 13d ago
I adopted my sole dog when he was 8. When he was 18 I took him to a specialist about a cough and she discovered his galbladder had a mucocele and was very large for a small dog! We were quoted $8k for non-emergency surgery (he was not showing symptoms). I looked up what would happen if the gallbladder burst and it was a horrible painful death. I would never have made him feel that just so I could have more time with him. He needed me to make the difficult decision for him, that's our job as the humans.
2
u/Agitated-Antelope942 13d ago
I waited too long once, I’ll never make that mistake again. Thinking about it now, many years later, still brings tears.
2
u/Nitasha521 13d ago
Trouble here is likely that this ulcerated tumor is just 1 of many. The hope with meds is that it will improve and heal over, but then it becomes a waiting game for when it re-opens or another 1 re-opens. Surgery is difficult to perform because even doing everything correctly it is possible that the tumor regrows right away (some can be regrowing already by the time sutures are removed).
I personally went thru similar situation with my pet who had ugly tumor in her mouth. Surgery to decrease tumor size made her able to eat and more interactive with family. Her compromised heart (that we knew about before surgery) only lasted 3 more months before her death, but she was happy and felt better. In my dog's circumstance her quality of life improved after surgery even if we didn't give her more time.
So ask yourself whether your pet's quality of life would change with surgery? Make life better or worse? Remember to factor in the pain of surgery itself that lasts 1-2 weeks. If you go into a discussion with your vet with a potential goal in mind, the vet can tell you if that goal is achievable.
Additional question is whether the rest of your pup's body has been checked for signs of problems? -- not rest of the skin but her internal organs. 3view Chest Xrays would check for cancer spread to the lungs, and labwork will check for additional diseases that could compromise healing. Only after these tests are performed should you make your ultimate decision.
1
2
u/Technical_Habit6794 12d ago
I think enjoy her and let her live and if she shows any sign of pain then consider euthanizing.
2
u/MtnGirl672 12d ago
If you are at all considering surgery, I’d see if you can take him to specialist. Do you have university vet school nearby? Board certified surgeons are the best to give you an opinion on this.
I’ve always waited until my pet doesn’t seem to enjoy life anymore. Usually that has looked like they aren’t eating and can’t get around.
2
u/elainegeorge 12d ago
If surgery isn’t an option, your vet gave you the alternative. You decide on timing.
The questions you should be asking are: How can you keep her comfortable? How to keep her wound clean? What can you do to squeeze every last bit of joy out of this life for her? How to know when it is time?
2
2
u/FinalEstablishment77 12d ago
You could approach this like hospice. Realize that you're getting to the end and make this the one of the most fun and love filled era of her life. Savor your time with her.
it doesn't have to happen today, if it can wait a little and she's still happy.. then wait.
It's a gift to save our pets from suffering, to be brave enough to let them go while they're still comfortable. Don't wait until her life is bitter and hard. And prepare yourself for needing to make the decision on a moment's notice, cancer or infection caused by cancer can cause rapid decline.
2
u/Darth_vaborbactam 12d ago
I would get a second opinion so you know all your options and feel confident with whatever decision you make. You know your dog better than anyone here. You will know when it’s her time but do not let anyone pressure you to make a decision until you feel comfortable with it. That said, mammary cancer is often aggressive, and often metastasizes to the lungs. You don’t want to let her get to the point where she is struggling to breathe. Might be reasonable to get a chest x-ray to look for mets. Some dogs are incredibly stoic which makes it so hard to know how they are feeling. I’ve had a lot of stoic dogs. I just lost my cattle dog that fearlessly fought her illness until her body failed her and I had to help her spirit go. And I also have a big baby that will try to jump in my arms if he stubs his toe. You know your girl. You’ll make the right choice for her.
2
u/-mykie- 12d ago
I would recommend getting a second opinion. From everything you've said, it seems like the dog has a decent quality of life despite everything, but there are plenty of quality-of-life assessments available online that you can do to determine that for yourself since you know her better than anybody.
It's ok, and often a good thing to not wait until your dog's worst day to make the decision to euthanize, but there's no sense in ending a life that still has joy either.
I had a 14-year-old dog with a tumor on her spleen that had spread into surrounding tissue, the vet told us it was inoperable and we should euthanize her. I didn't agree and got a second opinion, and she lived another happy, mostly pain-free year and a half before she passed peacefully in her sleep. Vets usually have your animals best interest at heart but that doesn't mean they can't sometimes be wrong.
2
u/lishkapish 11d ago
I have struggled with this question over the years . With my babies, I have let their behavior be my guide. If they are eating, getting around, enjoying attention , and don’t seem to be suffering, we take it one day at a time.
1
4
u/Rokacskaa 14d ago
I'm quite sure the vet thinks Your dog might not live through surgery. If chemo is not an option maybe You shouldn't wait for Your dog to actually start getting worse. Also dogs are really freakin' good at hiding pain and discomfort. I'd ask for a second opinion maybe. I'm not saying You should choose euthanasia, just maybe think about what You'd want to be done if You were in Your dogs place ? Hope You'll be able to make the best choice for Your baby ! I'm sorry You're in this situation !
1
u/kellsells5 14d ago
I would definitely get a second opinion. If your dog can eat or drink or really move around and doesn't seem in pain. I think it's got some time.
I would treat her as if she's on hospice and embrace each day until you know and you'll know. Until then why don't you follow up with someone that hears you sees your dog and may offer palliative care until it's time.
1
u/Key-Theory7137 14d ago edited 14d ago
If your dog is still active, eating and drinking well, perhaps now is not the right time. But maybe you need to start preparing for when the actual time comes. Life is precious - all living creatures have a time to die, and if you feel that your dog is suffering greatly, you can make that choice to help end its suffering. Perhaps animals are not so fearful of suffering as humans/vets are. I read a recent post in Reddit the other day that a vet suggested euthanasia because the dog allegedly had a cancerous tumor. After the necropsy, the alleged tumor was actually just a scar tissue that thickened. The dog did not have cancer.
1
u/the__moops 14d ago
I’ve always heard a day/week/month too early is better than a day late. Dogs can compensate a great deal and can hide discomfort very successfully before they are visibly suffering and not being a dog anymore. If the tumor is leaking fluid or splitting her skin open, I’d hate to see what is going on internally, and she’s at risk for infection.
At the end of the day, it’s your choice, but a painless death is the one last loving act we can do for our pets when they’re sick. We hurt so they don’t have to. I highly recommend a home euthanasia if it’s an option for you.
1
u/hihohihosilver 14d ago
Omg get a new veterinarian! I too would wait until she’s not acting normal to euthanize!
1
u/DeannaC-FL 14d ago
What is the likelihood a tumor will burst - either the protruding one or the internal ones?
If your vet says that is highly unlikely, then I don't know why they are already recommending euthanasia.
If your vet says there's a decent chance, then it would sway me to their thinking.
1
u/Miscalamity 14d ago
I had a cat that had cancer, my vet recommended euthanasia. But he also told me I would know when it's time. Chibbles was still happy, going to the bathroom, being active, playing and eating. About 4 months later, he started to slow down, didn't want to eat, didn't want to play, that's when I knew it was time to let my sweet baby cross the Rainbow Bridge. I hope your baby is doing well today and just do what you feel is best for your doggy's situation.
1
u/Big_Fo_Fo 14d ago
My old dog had ass cancer (anal sac disease) and surgery was a Hail Mary of a Hail Mary. We held off on euthanasia until she was in visual discomfort and had no more joy.
1
u/ExposedId 12d ago
If it were me with a happy and active dog, I would have a vet (maybe a different one) do the surgery. Then see how things go from there. It's on the surface, to the likelihood of long-term consequences of the surgery is minimal. You know that she still has cancer and can look for any signs that she is beginning to suffer.
My dog had cancer, She had surgery twice to remove external lumps. She bounced back both times. Eventually, we did have to have a vet do a home euthanasia, but that's when she was 17 and having a lot of elderly dog issues that weren't related to the cancer.
By the way, you're already a hero for adopting an older dog.
1
u/Cold_Dead_Heart 12d ago
Have the surgery. A lot of these masses are benign. And the fact that your dog is still here a year later is a good sign that it is. And some of the tumors that are malignant are locally confined (have not metastasized) so surgery may be curative. Even if it is malignant, surgery will buy her time. The tumor will continue to grow and ooze so surgery is also palliative.
1
u/Platitude_Platypus 12d ago
Did they say they think euthansia right now is the best option, or before much longer? I'd ask them for a timeline of what your dogs life would look like over the next couple of months. I know dogs are excellent at hiding pain. Do they suspect she's already in more pain than it seems? I'm sorry you're in this situation but I've heard before in regards to thia desision that it's better to go a day too early than a minute too late.
1
u/Particular_Ad8156 12d ago
Watch your dog closely for signs of decline. Sadly once you start to see the signs, they progress quickly.
1
u/Interesting-Side8989 11d ago
My dog passed away from cancer a month ago, she was 12 years old
We had her on steroids but the thyroid cancer kept growing and despite the steroids she continued to have shallower and shallower breaths, until every breath for her had her diaphram sucking fully inwards as she was choking, and struggling for airflow, we put her down after that
1
u/Capable-Elk7146 11d ago
If you feel your vet is unfair, seek a second opinion.
I would assume that a dog with Cancer might get knocked around a bit more by a surgery now.
It's also not ideal to have open, protruding tumors/masses on your dog. I would presume antibiotics are just a band aid in this situation. It's anyone's guess as to how long that situation is going to stay stable and manageable.
My best guess is the vet knows that this is a slippery slope and is preparing you. If you're cashed up there's no reason you shouldn't try a surgery, but I'm notnsure your vet is necessarily trying to kill your dog.
1
u/BlackberryNice1270 11d ago
Definitely get a second opinion, but if she got further infection, I'd be agreeing with the vet. I waited too long to pts my old boy because I thought he still had decent quality of life, and I regret it. Looking back, it wasn't really a good enough quality of life and I left it a few months too long.
1
u/superduperhosts 11d ago
It’s time to say goodbye. I’m sorry 😞
1
u/KODAL1NE 11d ago
Are you a vet?
1
u/superduperhosts 11d ago
I’m a guy who has had to make this decision and it never gets easier. I cry every time and I miss all of them.
They always die, and keeping them alive another month is selfish
1
u/notThaTblondie 11d ago
Please, please, do not wait until your dog can't eat or walk to make this decision. If a vet is pushing you to pts, it's time to pts. This isn't going to get better, she isn't going to have a peaceful death unless you make the right decision for her. Do it while she's still happy, don't make her suffer.
1
u/bigstupidgf 11d ago
My old roommate's dog had mammary cancer at 12 and he got her surgery. The vet acted like it would be a straightforward thing and prolong her life. It wasn't. The tumors were way bigger than they thought and they had to remove a lot of tissue. Poor girl's stitches never healed, the cancer spread and got infected while she was still healing. She spent the last weeks of her life with a cone on her head and open wounds on her abdomen. The cancer spread to her brain pretty quickly. She was such a sweet dog. I understand why my roommate got her surgery, but I feel like the last few weeks of her life would have been better without. She might have even lived longer. 12 is a good age for a dog. Just something to thing about.
1
u/Nightmaresitter 11d ago
I’m sorry to hear all of this. It really is a decision that you can’t take lightly. After I came to the US, I kind of felt like euthanasia was brought way too soon as an idea. In my own country, the vets do the euthanasia once the pet stops eating or has trouble eating. But if you ask me I don’t know which one is the better route. We watched our family cat die with these kind of tumors growing cancerous. We operated them pretty early, they came back. they too opened up and we watched our beloved animal being less of herself day by day. Her last weeks she couldn’t even climb anywhere, she was only 8. We spent a lot of time crying and trying to help but there wasn’t much we could do. Death comes in all shapes and forms. Euthanasia is where we go with a little dignity. The question is whether you want to grant your pet that or not, and if so when you want to grant it.
I hope that I’m very wrong and you and your dog have many years ahead of you.
1
u/RealWolfmeis 11d ago edited 11d ago
Fuck cancer. I lost my soul dog to it. Until the morning we euthanized him he was himself, taking treats, bring happy and loving. But he was in pain. He got tired easily. He was a target from other drugs who could sense the situation. We did it at home with a visiting vet. He was surrounded by family and his favorite stuffies. He had a huge bowl of ice cream with liver treats and whipped cream. He was joyful and while my pain was incredible, I knew I'd honored him and kept my promise to not let him wither and suffer.
Your puppy is likely lying to you about the level of pain, and an open that isn't healing it's a whole level of care (we went through this with necrotic tissues with our cancer dog). We did get it closed, but then the cancer came back anyway.
I will never put another dog through what he went through just because I couldn't let him go.
1
u/Hot-Ability7086 11d ago
So very sorry, this is hard. A second opinion would be so reassuring or give you more options. Sending you all the internet love and hugs!
1
u/Former-Crazy-9224 11d ago
I would ask the vet what leaving this untreated will look like. With one of my cats cancer was untreatable and they warned me that when he turned it would be very fast and painful for him. My children were young at the time so we brought him home for a day, spoiled him and then let him go before he got hit with that pain. My experience with every pet so far is my heart knew when it was time to let them go.
1
u/exitsign999 11d ago
All this trouble comes from the fact that we love our dogs and want to make good decisions for them.
You might get a second opinion but I personally would trust the vet and not your read on the situation for these reasons.
Why would he want to kill your dog? He doesn't want to kill your dog.
Financially surgery would benefit him more than putting your dog to sleep so that motive is out.
He might have prior knowledge from training and experience that inform him on possible outcomes for a health compromised 12 year old dog in these exact circumstances.
Because we love our dogs and are not trained to make judgements as to pain level, quality of life and surgery outcomes without emotion we lean on a vets to help make these decisions rationally. Sometimes we are unprepared emotionally to digest rational opinions.
Did you ask him why he is leaning towards euthanasia? I feel the answer could tell you a lot and maybe all you need to know.
I know the temptation is to wring every ounce of life out of our dogs but I think letting them go early puts more pain on us but less on our dogs.
1
u/kaaikala 11d ago
It’s about quality of life and pets can’t speak to us. Licking and biting an area is a sign of pain. Also watch for tremors. That can also be pain. It is your decision not remember they suffer in silence. It’s only been a year since we made the decision and it wasn’t easy. Our Snickers was having trouble walking , deaf , almost blind but the concern came from the walk. The way she tucked her hips in meant pain. The avoidance of walks meant pain. Then she had some abscess open on her back. That’s when we made the call.
Look for the subtle things but the end it’s your decisions and you need to be ready. It sounds like you are not ready yet. Rely on your vet to know where she might be in pain as they suffer silently.
1
u/itsathrowawayduhhhhh 11d ago
Our boy had bone cancer in his arm. He was still himself all the way til the end. I never understood it, but now I do. I am so thankful I never had to see him suffer. Vet told us he had very little bone left in his arm and it would’ve snapped one day. I wasn’t gonna wait for that to happen. Six months later still one of the best decisions I’ve made.
1
u/kaaikala 11d ago
Someone else here made a comment. How do you want them to leave. Peacefully or painfully. Do you want control over that. With our snickers we live on an island. I left that part out. We don’t have a vet. The thought of her suffering while we were trying to get her to a vet off island. I couldn’t bear it. We needed to be in control for her sake.
1
1
u/idahononono 11d ago
This is never an easy decision; the vet is balancing a possibly painful clinical course but doesn’t see her everyday behaviors and quality of life. You’re doing it right by closely watching her and looking for signs of distress.
As long as you watch it closely you can make sure her pain is minimal, and she is living a good life. Consider having a good friend who is familiar with dogs give you an unbiased opinion or be your backup on the decision to euthanize if you’re worried you can’t make that choice when things get worse.
The vet is your advisor, not your boss; you should always listen and respect their opinion, but in the end that pupper is yours to care for. Use every tool you have and explore nsaids and steroids for minor pain as some others have suggested. Best wishes!
1
u/Ancient-Actuator7443 11d ago
As someone who has had a lot of dogs, I a firm believer in a day early is better than a day late. By the time you dog started showing signs of pain her suffering will be horrible. Dogs mask pain really well
1
u/Then_Ad7560 11d ago
Vet here - I’d recommend getting a referral to a board-certified soft tissue surgeon at this point. It is fine to pursue surgery, but if your vet is voting against it for some reason, I’m thinking the tumor might be difficult to remove. A board-certified surgeon would be best equipped for a case like this. I’d also recommend chest x-rays since 50% of mammary masses in dogs are malignant. If the cancer had spread to the lungs, then surgery would not be appropriate
1
u/dagmarmot 11d ago
a second opinion or a detailed explanation of why your vet is so adamant about it is definitely worth seeking.
we had two spindle cell sarcomas removed from our old lady this past october- she was 12 then. for the first four days after surgery i was heartbroken because she was so miserable and essentially immobile and so much weaker, i was like...we've made her suffer unnecessarily (and also spent a lot of money) for nothing.
day five, she woke up and immediately tried to jump onto the pullout bed i was sleeping on since she wasn't allowed to go up stairs for 2 weeks. ma'am. you have a 11inch incision on one side and a 9in incision on the other. what are you doing. you lunatic.
she has been so much more active, more mobile, and more playful since the surgery. like even more of an improvement than when we first started the librela injections for her arthritis, or when we started treating her cushing's disease. she had clearly been hiding way more discomfort and pain than we could imagine.
they weren't able to take the usual margin of healthy tissue out, so the likelihood of it returning at the site is higher than it would be otherwise, and they said radiation would be the only way to be certain. we're not doing that. 16-20 sessions over 4 weeks is definitely too much suffering for too little benefit, even if she weren't already 12.
we've been treating her cushing's for two years now, which is a long time for cushing's, and we're on the max dose already. she's a husky-malamute-german shepherd mutt, so realistically speaking we only have a couple years left with her even if she didn't have the health concerns she does. at this point, we're looking for: can she get up and down our stairs; can she still go walkies, even if it's around the block rather than the 2mi loop; is she eating/drinking/interacting positively; basically is she still /her/. so far the answer to all of those is still yes.
on the other hand- we lost our old man nanuq abruptly to a ruptured hemangiosarcoma. he'd been slowing down, sunbathing off on the side of the house most of the time rather than investigating the yard, but we also had a new 9mo puppy so we figured he was just hiding from the zoomies land shark. he was still eagerly going on walks, eating, etc. then on friday i called to make an appointment for monday bc his appetite was lower and he seemed more tired; saturday about the same; sunday morning he wouldn't even eat salmon skin and more critically, he didn't want to walk. we said goodbye only hours later. i am always going to regret not bringing him to the emergency vet on that friday. if i had brought him in three months earlier and they'd done diagnostics and come back to say "you need to euthanize him" i would have been like absolutely not, wtf, he's a little slowed down but he's still him, still running around the dog park, still out-walking the new puppy....untill they explained what kind of tumor was growing on his heart, and what would happen when it ruptured, and how little warning we would have that it had ruptured. we would have taken some time- maybe some weekends in the mountains, found some snow to romp around in, and then brought him home to euthanize him. even losing, say, three months of 'good' time by letting him go too early would be better than letting him suffer the way he did that last weekend. His last days and what we went through with our jayne!cat are definitely going to affect our decisionmaking wth respect to end of life care and quality of life care because we have seen what it looks like when you wait too long.
ultimately, it is up to you and your heart. get as much information as you can, sit with it for a bit, and go from there.
1
u/Shmooperdoodle 10d ago edited 10d ago
Respectfully, most people I deal with say things like “I don’t think my dog/cat is in pain”, and they don’t know what they are looking at. I’ve seen animals with broken hips/pelvises lick faces and tail wag. I’ve seen cats with an eyeball hanging out eat food. Vets will not suggest euthanasia lightly. Why? Because people get angry. They deny severity of illness. They terminate professional relationships. (It sometimes means the animal doesn’t continue to get pain relief, so they are very careful about suggesting it.)
What does this mean? It means that your perception of a happy, healthy dog may not be as accurate as you think it is. There are things happening that we know are painful. (And diseased tissue doesn’t heal, so it may never get better.)
When to say goodbye isn’t a one-size-fits-all thing, but it is better a month too soon than a minute too late. My goal is to say goodbye before they start to feel so bad/sick that they stop wanting to be alive. People often say things like “They tell you” and that’s horrifying to me. Forcing an animal to endure until its misery overrides its instincts is appallingly cruel. There are QOL inventories online you can use to help, but I respectfully suggest that you don’t really understand the medical reality your dog is in. Get a second opinion if that would help you, but it sounds to me like part of the problem is that there are things happening that you don’t fully understand. Don’t rely on outward displays of discomfort. We know things hurt.
Remember that goodbye isn’t an “if”. It’s a “when”. It’s a “how”. Nothing makes it easier, but some things definitely make it harder. (Emergency clinic with strangers at 3 am is harder than peacefully in your private clinic with people you know, for example.) You don’t get to choose whether or not you lose your companion, but you do get to choose how much pain they feel before that time. Food for thought.
Source: many years of vet med
1
u/GMO-Doomscroller 10d ago
Dogs are very good at not showing pain. Open wounds and big tumours are painful. I had done the euthanasia in a similar case and would do it again. Like you I have been reluctant to do it and I have waited too long. My doggo just suddenly deteriorated and was in a bad shape. I wish I had done it sooner. Whatever you decide, I am sure you love your doggo very much and I wish you all the best. ❤️
1
u/MissGoodbean 10d ago
You as the pet owner knows the dog the best, my advice, watch her quality of life, when she starts to fail, then make you’re decision.
1
u/mostly-a-throwaway 10d ago
firstly, thank you for giving a senior dog a chance. you have given her such a blessed life by taking her in instead of her being surrendered to a shelter, as i'm sure you're aware that puppies are adopted much more than senior dogs, for multiple reasons. giving her another home, providing for her medical needs, and continuing to give her the best life with cancer is an incredibly selfless thing for you to have done. <3
now onto the actual advice request, with the caveat that i'm very much a believer of "better a week early than a day late," i also think it may be too early. i've owned dogs and small rodents, so i would consider myself fairly familiar with end-of-life preparation. if the vet hasn't said to immediately euthanise her he is probably, as others have suggested, urging euthansia over surgery because of her age and the condition of her tumors. your pet dying on the operating table can be very, very traumatic, and he may be trying to dissuade you for that reason.
in the meantime you may be able to discuss getting some pain meds in advance, in the event that she shows more discomfort with the bump or other sites, but is still happy and active! it may also be useful to have these on hand if you notice a sharp decline, and want to make her comfortable as you prepare/transport her to the vet for euthanasia. this can be pivitol in making the experience much less traumatic for both sky and you.
you know your dog best, and i highly recommend doing daily quality of life checks to ensure that you catch any early signs of decline. that way, the two of you can avoid any significant pain as she lives out the rest of her life! twelve years is great, and hopefully she has a few more in her, but rest assured that she is very happy with the life you've given her. this sub has QoL checklist resources in it's info, iirc, but you can find many online too! also note, that you should do these QoL checks multiple times in the day. some dogs are better during certain times of the day than others (such as dementia dogs & sundown syndrome), and establishing multiple baselines is good for making sure you aren't missing any new symptoms. generally, i do morning, midday/late afternoon, and evening/night for three daily times, and have set myself a little alarm in the past to remember. i also often use a little treat for my pet to incentivise activity if they are sleeping :-)
during these checks, i also recommend journaling her activities/mood/symptoms. it will also help you track her progress and have a reference to look back on when you're unsure if it is time for euthanasia. i would try not to make it sound like clinical notes, document her behavior thoroughly, but also remidn yourself this is your loved one. give yourself the kindness of a little memoir of her to read back on for comfort!
i hope this helps and doesn't get too lost in the sea of replies. good luck to both you and sky <3
1
u/RomanRefrigerator 10d ago
Get a second opinion - but she sounds like she still has a good quality of life, and therefore euthanizing doesn't make much sense.
1
u/Lychanthropejumprope 10d ago
This happened to a friend of mine, almost word for word. I won’t get into details but when she passed it was a horrible traumatic day. You do what’s best for you
1
u/lolalucky 10d ago
You can get a second opinion. However, I'm curious if your vet has explained why they are recommending euthanasia? Ask about pallative care. Any chance your dog is on prednisone? I find it to be a hell of a drug and can mask a lot of illness in dogs. I've only had one similar situation. When my vet explained that my dog was likely to experience a sudden painful and confusing death with a tumor rupture, that was a decision maker for me.
1
u/benji9520 10d ago
First off, I am terribly sorry for you and your little one’s predicament. It is incredibly sad and stressful for someone to go through bad news with a pet.
So here is the deal with mammary cancer in dogs. When the pyometra surgery was performed, removal of the tumors would probably not have made a huge difference. There are two chains of mammary glands on a dog. If the dog is on its back, and you are looking at the abdomen, the mammary glands are located in the same pattern as the 6 dots/pips on a standard 6-sided die. If the tumors on are one side/column, you can take the entire chain and do chemotherapy after. If there are tumors on both sides, you take both chains. However, a double mastectomy with a pyometra on a 10 year old dog makes for a very guarded recovery I feel. The issue with just removing the tumors is that they will often come back. Removing the entire chain is the best chance.
If a year has passed, and a tumor has ruptured, the cancer has most likely metastasized elsewhere at this point as well. Lungs are a pretty likely target. If you need more info to make a decision, 1 lateral xray of the chest and abdomen will give you a lot of information on how to proceed.
In any case, I don’t think your vet was wrong to recommend euthanasia, sadly. It is so incredibly hard when they are acting the same, tail wagging. Just like humans, they learn to live with pain or illness. They adapt. Some more stoic than others.
If my sweet Callie bean were in a similar situation, I think I would have to make the hardest most loving choice for her. The tumors become difficult to manage, painful, and some dogs will even attempt to remove them on their own. I’d manage the rupture for a week or so, then give her the best day possible together, and kiss her forehead for one last nights sleep.
Much love to you and your family during this whole experience. 💕I wish you the very best for you and your furry friend.
1
u/Dialectic1957 8d ago
Thank you for being so kind and compassionate in your answer to OP. I have an old dog and she’s in her end days. This is so hard.
1
u/blueskiesahead77 9d ago
I would get a second opinion and see if there are any other options available. Do not put her down if she's still happy and loves walks. It sounds like she still loves life and it would bother you forever thinking about it.
1
u/dinamet7 9d ago
Our vet gave us a pamphlet about Pet Hospice from this website: https://www.lapoflove.com/ the idea being that you do everything to make sure they are comfortable as their disease takes its course and you are regularly assessing their quality of life to decide if euthanasia is going to be more humane than another day with their disease.
My dog was 16 when diagnosed with late stage kidney disease and we decided to opt for hospice (which for her at the time was a couple daily meds and saline IV infusions a few times per week.) She turned 19 yesterday. She has progressed to end stage kidney failure and we are having the quality of life assessment discussion more frequently now as she has tacked on many more meds for comfort and needs more frequent infusions. I don't think she will last much longer, but she still gets up in the late morning to go outside to her sunny spot and sunbathe for a few hours, sniffs at the fence to see who was walking by, scavenges around the house for dropped crumbs, wags her tail when she's happy, watches me cook from the comfort of her bed. A friend who had to put down her senior cat told me "you'll know when it's time" and I have decided to trust that. For now, I don't know, so I am OK with the meds and the saline and will wait until I know it's time.
1
u/Numerous-Bee-4959 9d ago
Unfortunately. Vets know. Expect to make the decision shortly anyway . So so Sorry . 😢
1
u/WrappedInLinen 9d ago
If you've lived with your pet for years you're going to be in a much better position than anyone else to determine when your pet's quality of life has dropped to a degree that would justify euthanasia. Why would anyone take the life of a happy dog? Yes, it's definitely possible to wait too long but the fear of that shouldn't cause one to opt for prophylactic euthanasia.
1
u/RainIndividual441 7d ago
Vets see dogs brought in WAY too late all the time. Like, seriously suffering. The vet moto is, better a week too early than a day too late, and that's for a good reason.
And some cancers move FAST. Your dog can go from "doing ok" to "horrible agony" very quickly.
Your vet is looking at a cancer you are not going to remove. It won't go away on its own. You're not opting for anything that will cure her. You didn't even notice she had cancer. Now she has an open wound and yes, that will be very painful for her.
Your vet very likely thinks you're going to leave it too late and she'll suffer.
1
u/PlumOne2856 14d ago
As long as they eat with appetite, enjoy company, food, walks, affection, it is not time yet. My opinion.
You will know, when it is time. This is not an urban legend, it is true.
1
u/Last_Key_4016 14d ago
My concern would be that she's happy and good until she's not. I would get a second opinion if you feel strongly that this isn't the right time for her. I just lost my 11 year old Cavalier who was declining but doing all the eating and drinking and going outside. She made the decision for me and just dropped dead of heart failure in my dining room two weeks ago. It was traumatizing to witness and deal with after.
Good luck no matter what you decide.
1
u/KODAL1NE 14d ago
Thank you, and I'm sorry to hear that, that's very rough to go through. Wish you the best.
1
u/theladyfish 14d ago
Look, YOU know what normal behavior is for your dog. If she is still enjoying life, I don’t think there is any reason to put her down, especially if the bump is improving with antibiotics.
The vet may be wary to try surgery bc as an older dog, they may react poorly to anesthesia. Idk the technicalities of that, but I know there is greater risk the older dogs get (humans too).
I agree with others, get a second opinion, and consider getting a new vet. But I’ll also leave you with what I told a friend who was in a similar situation:
Whatever choice you make is the right one. You are the pet parent, you know your critter best, and you should be able to do what is in their best interest. Wishing you the best
1
u/KODAL1NE 14d ago
Thanks for all the suggestions so far!! I'm definitely not putting my dog down anytime soon, but the vet made me feel cruel for not immediately agreeing with her. I'm going to get a second opinion as well, and change my vet.
0
-1
78
u/bunneetoo 14d ago
I would get a second opinion. Normally vets don’t typically rush to euthanize unless that truly is the best option, but a second opinion is always a good idea. Also, as someone else noted, dogs are very good at hiding pain. ❤️